M4 Mini purchase upcoming! Monitor(s) questions

TidBITS Talk
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While my used 2014 has been humming right along, I’m at a point where I think a new machine would be helpful. I was looking at earlier ones but I honestly think the $500 M4 is a good bang for the buck machine! <edit - oops I guess they are $600) I saw them refurbished from Apple but they aren’t that much less.

Right now I am running the 27" LED Cinema Display and a 24" Dell off the 2014 Mini. I sometimes have a need to run an app on a large screen so I have moved the Mini to my desk so I can easily plug it between my rMBP and the Mini. The monitor also powers the laptop. I bought a second cable to drive the Dell (and either it or the second port is flaky because it flickers on and off at times).

The Dell has a few different ports for connectivity, the ACD has the mini-DP but there should be adapters.

I have finally gotten the ACD to play sound on Zoom calls (that was a fun excuse not to do them while it lasted)

Questions:
It does look like I’ll be able to use both monitors with a new M4 Mini?

I have been seeing a number of the 27" A1316 monitors locally near $100, worth getting a second?

Subquestion on that - it is a HOT monitor! Two may be unbearable in summer. :sweat_smile:

Mini heat - how hot do the new ones run? The 2014 is also quite toasty, I never noticed it when it lived under my desk but I really notice now that it sits behind the laptop.

Am I going to need a dock for the Mini with 2 monitors?
Should I get a holder for the back of the 27"? Or will that be too much heat for everyone?

I use ethernet for my desktops, plus a wired keyboard. With only a 256gb drive (again!! ugh) I will probably get an external SSD.

I don’t think they have an SD slot. I also thought the ports included a DP port but I don’t see that either?

10 years since I bought a machine and my 2015 is still doing great but I’ve moved all my clients off it for security reasons.

Am I missing anything in my plan? My needs for the machine are kind of minimal though I will be doing some photo processing since I have it - the 2014 is molasses for that kind of work. I mostly remote into clients, Excel, Word, Zoom and general web access access, also Apple Mail.
Thanks!
Diane

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I always forget something.

I don’t think I’ll migrate anything from the other two machines seeing as they are all Intel apps. I am pretty sure that’s how I handled the upgrade from the 2008 Unibody to the 2015 rMBP, just installed apps and moved data over as needed.

I have MS Office 2016 and will need to keep using that (or a newer perpetual version).

I have a couple of versions of QuickBooks, and Moneydance. DevonThink.

Things I suspect I’ll finally lose, it’s an older version. I’ll miss Notability since I won’t do a subscription but I mostly use it on the iPad anyway.

Illustrator and Lightroom will stay on the old machines along with Ascent.

What should I do about Windows? I have an ancient Windows laptop running Win 7 for QuickBooks, which I need to refresh every couple of years. Worth trying to partition a portion of the drive, or the external? I don’t really want to get another Windows machine when it finally dies.

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mini-DisplayPort is DisplayPort, but with a different connector. Simple passive adapters and cables are easy to get and should work just fine with just about any PC (which typically feature HDMI, DisplayPort or DisplayPort-over-USB-C).

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This will be my first computer without older USB ports, which reminds me I need something for the keyboard.

I had bought a 6’ mini-dp cable extender when I had the Mini under the desk, and was surprised at the variety of options. Even Staples carries a number of DP adapters.

I will still screen share into it (from the laptop) and to my iMac - both running Sierra.

I forgot I had seen docks with space for hard drives. That may be worth considering.

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I have had very good luck running Windows 11 in the (free) Virtual Machine app UTM on my Apple Silicon Macs. Parallels works as well, but I notice no difference in performance, and I still haven’t found an app (including Quickbooks) that doesn’t run in a Windows VM on my M-machine Macs.

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Alternatively you could use a WINE variant such as CodeWeavers’ CrossOver. (Full price $74. Sales usually go for just over $50. Only need to buy once unless you want more than 1 year of phone/online tech support.)

I recently moved a client to an M-series Mac who had used a Dell laptop for Quicken only. We installed CrossOver on the new Mac and used their pre-set configuration to reinstall Quicken on a Windows 7 “bottle”. Fairly easy and they now just bring up CrossOver/Quicken when needed and the data folder resides in Documents on the Mac where it is automatically backed up by TimeMachine.

You can try CrossOver free for a couple weeks to see if it will work for you.

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When I got my M4 mini, I had the same problem. In my case, I was using a 10-port USB 3 hub. I used Apple’s USB A-to-C adapter and it worked fine. Later on, I got rid of the adapter, replacing the hub’s A-to-B cable with a B-to-C cable.

I’m also using an Apple A-to-C adapter with my SuperDrive, so I can access all my optical media from the new computer. I haven’t tried burning discs with it yet, but it has no problem reading my audio CDs (I primarily use it for ripping new music purchases) and DVDs (both purchased and home-made).

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You might consider purchasing a USB-C hub that features 2 or 3 USB-A ports, an HDMI port, and perhaps some other useful ports. They are quite compact and run anywhere from $10 to $25. Just search Amazon, or another purveyor or vendor of accessories for some choices. Below is a link to one from Anker that I use with my laptop:

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Depends on what you need. An M4 mini includes an HDMI port and an Ethernet port. If all you need is the ability to connect a bunch of devices with USB-A ports, your least-expensive alternative may be what I suggested - a generic USB 3 hub, with a cable that ends in a USB-C connector.

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I have 3 or 4 of these that I’ve received in the past as review units, and I agree with @aforkosh that they can be useful. (For comparison I also have a Thundersomething 3 dock from OWC that I used with another MBPro for landing at work. It gave me all the bells and whistles* that the 2017 MBPro and similar models of that generation lacked.)

It’s the sort of thing in my view where you set your new machine up first, connect what you already have, and then decide whether you miss anything beyond HDMI and Ethernet. I’ve dropped one of my two USB 3 hubs because my need for 20 USB-A ports seems to have diminished lately…

*Or as I call them, “very necessary ports and what were you thinking, Apple?” bells and whistles

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Thanks for the replies! I actually ordered a couple of cables today, and an external hard drive. After all that I remembered I still didn’t have SD card access so that had me looking at docks/hubs again. Yesterday I’d found a dock that holds it on its side and an SSD can be added to it. It’s got a few ports too.

I bought a Wavlink dock to use with the laptop a few years ago. I used it as a USB-A dock and had forgotten it’s really a USB C dock that came with a C to A cable. Anyway, it has support for 2 monitors but I always felt I was getting flickering and laggy performance when hooked to the laptop so I stopped using it. Today I plugged the 24" into the 2014 Mini through that dock and it seems to be working fine. I’ll use that for a few days. I don’t have the right cable to try the Cinema Display. Unfortunately I didn’t buy one with an SD slot since the laptop has one.

The new dock I found that can hold the Mini has an HDMI port and the SD slot - with both docks and the Mini ports I shouldn’t have an issue using both monitors. (I’m not planning on using both docks but will test them both)

All that was from Amazon so what’s not needed can go back. I feel like I missed a cable somewhere. The MiniDP female cables/adapters are not very common.

Both monitors have USB ports in the back which can take care of the keyboard/mouse.

I will take a look at UTM (had never heard of that one!) and Crossover (which I thought was subscription these days?)

I just need to decide where to buy the actual machine and do it! :)

@Matt_McCaffrey “*Or as I call them, “very necessary ports and what were you thinking, Apple?” bells and whistles”

I’ve thought something along those lines myself! More than once!!

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Sounds like you have quite a bit figured out. Don’t know if my comments below will be of any help. If you know anyone who is a student or educator, you can get $100 off the standard mini M4. There may be some kind of deals as we move closer to the new school year. Apple will ship for free to you as well.

Our mini M4 Pro with heavy 3D work can go well above 180 F. The fans rarely can be heard so I just installed Macs Fan Control and manually set it higher when doing heavy work. There are other fan controls available. MFC can be used for free if you only need Automatic (macOS control) and manual with out all the bells and whistles. The key thing is don’t pack things around or on top of the mini as it will prevent some of the heat dissipation via the metal case.

In terms of needing a USB-C breakout box for older ports, there were reports of drives and devices suddenly disconnecting on the M4 mini. Some thought the issue centered around when the Mac sleeps and wakes. Some thought it was only on the rear ports. Apple responded with their usual silence, but some seem to think the issue may have improved slowly with updates.

I have had some minor issues with the USB-C on a M4 mini Pro, such as a multi-port dongle that worked flawlessly on Intel Macs but has odd issues with some ports and devices when used with the mini. That may be some kind of legacy support issue.

Despite my feelings about Apple’s extreme prices on SSD and memory, it may be good to bump up the internal SSD if you can afford it so you have some space to work with out the need for always-connected USB drives to store daily-use work. At least the M4 mini (and Studio) now have removable SSDs so there is at least the possibility of repair/replacement (voiding warranty I am sure). 9to5Mac article and video below for reference:

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I just ordered it. I was going to wait until August 1 but was afraid the good price would change.

I did a price match from Micro Center to Best Buy (which is a story all its own). Their price on the bigger hard drive was not as aggressive as the 256gb so I stayed with that.

I had bought a bigger drive for the rMBP and never installed it, so I’ve been “suffering” with 256gb for 10 years :laughing:

I didn’t realize the new SSDs were removable? I’ll look into that for later.

Even with my current machines I get random drop outs of USB devices, no idea why.

Some of what I’ve read on the Mini has mentioned front vs back ports. It’s going to take some experimentation and desk rearranging I’m sure!

Heat - I didn’t realize the dock I wasn’t using was still plugged in and contributing to the heat on my desk. I feel like I need a little fan running back there in the summer.

So! Mini is actually ready to be picked up but nothing I ordered will be here until later this week. I probably won’t set it up until I get the adapter for the 27”

The FIRST thing I’m going to do with it is convert some RAW files in less than 20 minutes HAH!!

The final bit of is that I used the Apple Card to buy the Apple Mini for pickup in Best Buy nearby. And it was declined as unusual activity. Thankfully not difficult to fix but a little funny.

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How does it do that? Does your laptop use some version of MagSafe? I also just recruited an (ancient, in computing terms) LED Cinema Display to get video from a clamshell-closed M3 MacBook Pro, and was dismayed that there’s no adapter for the display’s “MagSafe 1” power delivery cable that can make it power up my M3 MacBook Pro (there are adapters that can translate MagSafe 1 to MagSafe 2 connectors).

As for the video signals themselves, OWC makes a BUNCH of different docks that can handle that issue. In my case it’s TB from laptop to Dock, MiniDisplayPort from dock to Cinema Display, and a USB-A physical (USB 2.0.1 logical) connection between monitor and dock to enable sound to emerge from the monitor’s 3 speakers and to drive pixel density/brightness/Color Profile adjustments.

I suspect that with Apple racing to catch up in the AI field while still trying to keep the user-related information private and secure, the “sweet spot” for a Mac Mini refurb might be one that costs twice as much: M4 Pro, perhaps limited by its spare 512 GB SSD, but with TB5 output and OWC pricing for an external drive capable of handling that dataflow, perhaps that would NOT be a major limitation, while avoiding Apple’s VERY expensive very large internal SSD pricing.

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I read your VERY detailed and illustrated instructions for doing that upgrade and wondered if you could venture an opinion regarding why it cannot be done starting with an M4 Pro Mini (on Apple’s refurb store, a 24 GB RAM equipped with TB5 ports and (as I remember) 10 gbit Ethernet seems to be the “sweet spot” at the moment, save for the size of the internal SSD. What I DON’T have a clue about is whether a TB5 EXTERNAL SSD from OWC or some other more reasonably pricing source would be compatible with Apple’s attempts to keep LLM processing “on device” for privacy and security purposes. Can you venture an opinion on that as well?

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I have a 2015 rMBP. Apple makes the MagSafe 2 adapter for $10 I think.

You couldn’t find one anywhere?

I am hoping the Answin adapter I found (others said it worked) will go directly from the monitor to the Mini. I think I had issues when I initially tried an extension cable, when my 2014 Mini was headless. I couldn’t get zoom calls working (which I didn’t mind but the people I was zooming with were annoyed)

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On older ACD models USB needs to be plugged in for the monitor to become fully usable. The monitor offers a USB-A plug (besides video and MagSafe) for that purpose, so an adapter or cable (depending on distance) would be required.

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Ah, you should be fine. In fact, if you need another adapter, I have one I could send you. The issue is there’s no adapter that makes MagSafe 1 OR 2 work with the new MagSafe ports now on new M-series MacBooks Pro.

And, back when they were a “thing” frequently sought, adapters that converted MiniDisplayPort to other physical and logical connectors often just didn’t work. User chats recommended one brand (they ALL came from China, I think) and that one worked.

Hard to imagine that an adapter would be the reason Zoom calls wouldn’t work when the monitor did otherwise, unless the issue was the monitor’s microphone not working. Those 2010 era displays were relatively early USB, which sometimes caused issues when the monitor was asked to do anything beyond displaying images.

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I’m sure I had something wrong in the configuration! I have so many random cables and adapters, the extension will just go in the box if it isn’t needed in the new setup.

The 2014 Mini is running Ventura using OCLP on an external and it’s so fussy about booting. I’ve done the protocol for external boot every single time. It can take 20 minutes before it’s fully operational. So once I got it working I was afraid to touch it again.

Kind of another reason I decided to get a new machine - we had a power outage overnight recently and my day started with fighting the boot process. Not fun!

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Ouch! Hopefully you will not have that issue any longer. You will enjoy the M4. And having purchased the lower priced model now you could just buy the newest model in a few years and sell the old one vs. blowing over twice as much as I did on the M4 Pro for occasional boosts (and 8 GB more base memory).

RE: Temperatures… To clarify my comment about 180+ F under heavy load (mini M4 Pro), the reading was internal and monitoring the GPU. The EXTERNAL case temperature is nowhere near that. I can put my hand on it under heavy load and feel warmth, but sampling with laser and physical thermometers never got much above 100 F external, and that was the Pro, under heavy load, at the back, top part of the case. I suspect you will not hit that point. The Pro after boot + 30 min at idle was around 77-80 F external if my data is correct.

The one thing I am doing is lifting the mini M4 off the desk a bit so hopefully it sucks in less dust, reducing need to crack it open for cleaning. The intake and exhaust are now both in the same ring at the base (exhaust is roughly the rear 30% of the ring), whereas the old ~8" square design had a dedicated rear exhaust. Both models suck in dust over time, but I hope to reduce the dust volume. Some people are simply placing the mini M4 on its side, which may reduce the thermal dissipation a little.

There are some hilarious “Pro tower” style enclosures that are being sold with claims they reduce a little more heat than the mini M4 by itself (You do not need this).

Unfortunately, I have no knowledge on that topic. The mini M4 Pro has unofficial SSD upgrades of its own of course, but the whole market is very new, so only time will tell how the replacement internal SSDs prove out. We used to have fairly “standard” parts for Intel Macs (if they were removable).

Many in the tech community were overjoyed that the Studio and mini M4 series even had a removable SSD. So at the very least, Apple could replace that part if defective or if there were premature wear-out (macOS appears to use the SSD much more than before the M-chips).

Touching again on the heat issue, there are rumors swirling around that future Apple M-chips may separate the CPU and GPU to help spread out heat generating sources. Uncertain if this will be across the entire line or only high end.