M4 Mini purchase upcoming! Monitor(s) questions

TidBITS Talk
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I’ve looked at so many docks in the past few weeks! Months ago I’d seen holders for the back of a monitor which I really liked since it kept everything neatly out of sight - almost bought one for the 2014, but (a) I’m not sure there’s one for the M4 and (b) that whole heat issue with the Cinema Display. I actually pull the cable out of the Mini when I leave my desk, partly for heat and partly because something may wake the Mini up overnight and then we’re looking down the hall wondering what the big glow is.

I usually do a spreadsheet but this time I just read some threads and reviews and kept some notes.

I’ve been looking at newer used Mini’s for awhile but felt even the 2018s were priced a bit high compared to the base M4 and the performance boost I would get.

I remember going to the Apple store to look at laptops in 2008 and how blazing fast the aluminum unibody was compared to my white iBook. Back then I used Illustrator as my benchmark. This time it will be a RAW file. No matter what I am prepared to be impressed by this :)

Temps: I used to run iStat?? on one of the laptops but haven’t done that in awhile. The rMBP has a flaky fan that I really need to replace. I usually remote into the 2014 Mini from the couch which keeps the laptop cooler.

Here is the link to the dock I bought (got it from Amazon though), I like that it’s not flat. My cats do sleep on the desk at times so I’ll have to keep an eye on dust. Is it easy to clean?

Not sure if it’s a new company but there were decent comments about it in reviews. I’ll see what it feels like when I get it. The price was good enough for me to take a chance. I got the model with the HDMI input.

I have the 2014 on its side right now but it’s in a corner which decreases air flow.

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Fortunately, card readers are dirt cheap these days. I’ve been using a Transcend RDF5 adapter for 10 years. I plug it in to a USB hub (either the one on my desk or the one in my display) when I need to access the contents of SD/micro-SD cards.

I found that it actually works better than the SD slot in my older Mac mini.

UTM is a Mac-friendly wrapper around the open source QEMU system that provides virtualization and emulation of a wide variety of computer systems.

They are removable, but they are proprietary and need to be paired with the motherboard. There is a procedure to do the pairing with new (never before written) flash chips, and that’s what these third-party upgrade kits are using.

But (as far as I know), there is no way to change a module’s pairing, so you can’t move an SSD from one Mac to another, even without preserving the content. (Moving while preserving the content is flat-out impossible, because the decryption keys are stored in the Secure Enclave). At least there’s no way using the tools Apple provides us mere mortals - they may have the ability to wipe a flash module so it can accept new pairing.

It is also unknown (IMO, unlikely) if after you replace one of these SSDs with a new one, you could later reinstall the original. It will depend on whether the Secure Element retains old pairing keys or if it only holds the latest one.

In other words, the ability is only good for replacing the SSD with a new one and never going back. Useful for Apple warranty service, but falls short of you would want for an upgrade mechanism.

The front ports are USB 3 ports (up to 10 Gbit/s). The back ports are USB4/Thunderbolt ports (and can go up to 40 Gbit/s).

So if you have a Thunderbolt device, you must plug it in to the back. If you have a USB 3.x device, you can use any available port.

Similarly, since external video is either via the HDMI port or Thunderbolt 4/5 (which is backward compatible with DisplayPort over USB-C) (source: Apple), you will need to connect displays to those back ports.

MacBook Pros since 2016 can charge via the USB-C ports. So a simple USB C-to-C cable from a hub or monitor with power-delivery support should work.

Additionally, since a MagSafe 3 cable has a USB-C connector at the other end, a Mac with MagSafe 3 (MacBook Pros from 2021, 2023 and later) should also be able to charge if that cable is connected to the display’s power-delivery port (but won’t be able to move data over that port, of course).

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Diane, that Minisopuru looks like an elegant solution. I like anything that prevents the need for pulling cables from the main body. Seems better to wear down the ports on a replaceable hub. Very nice that it includes an SSD stick socket. Even if the SSD performance is not top-tier, having all those ports and features packed into a mini stand is handy.

Regarding dust, I am probably being a little over cautious, but getting the mini M4 off your desk should help. Just make sure you can access the power button.

That article I posted before includes a video showing how to remove the bottom plate which is mostly held by 4 tension clips. Just have to be careful of the damn power switch (which should not have been on the bottom.) The other parts would be more involved, but at least you could do a quick check to see if there is built-up dust after a few years.

I feel your pain with the waking displays. I have used a lamp cord with built-in switch in some cases. That would prevent you having to unplug the display cable and stressing the port connections. I do not mean the in-line switch kind, but rather the style that plugs between the wall and your device, with an extension providing relocation of the switch. Example:

I have used a simpler, non-grounded type (Amazon example here) that is available at most hardware stores. The 2-prong style leaves more space for adjacent outlets.

The recent versions of macOS never fully sleep. They wake in the middle of the night and check-in online, even if you have settings that should be preventing this action. I have seen this with a wide range of systems including a mini M2 with LG display, or even a 2020 iMac 27" with the built-in 5K display.

Macs have always had an issue with USB devices waking them too easily, but I cannot fathom why Apple has such difficulty keeping the display off when a background, network task is running with nothing showing on screen. :thinking:

FYI: I forgot to include a link to one of the discussions on USB-C issues (Apple Insider). It appears recent macOS updates may have improved things. However, each USB-C bus may not provide enough power when all ports are in use by non-powered devices (either the 3 rear or 2 front). This is something that has been present even before the M4, including the Studio Macs.

So, it would seem balancing the non-powered devices between front and rear and/or having external power for certain devices or the hub may help with this ongoing issue. The rear is better for your fastest external drives due to the bus speed (as David C. mentioned).

Earlier this year the thinking was that the front USB-C ports were better at handling adapters (ie. converting from USB-A) but that may also be improved with recent updates. I should note my earlier issue with ONE of the USB-A ports on my adapter occurred when plugged into the front of my mini M4 Pro, but that could just be due to how the adapter was made.

Hopefully I have not overloaded you with details… :face_with_spiral_eyes:

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My LR Mini uses a 60" TV as a monitor via HDMI. Works great. Since I am retired an can finally afford it, I bought a Mac Studio for my studio. It uses a 43" TV for a monitor via HDMI. Also works great. Love the computer and it’s huge “hard drive.”

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How’s the text on your TVs? We stream via HDMI at times and the text is not very crisp on our TV which is a 2015 model (50”)

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I hope you haven’t bought yet…at least not for $600! Microcenter is selling the mini M4 with 16GB RAM and the 256 GB SSD for $449…the catch is that the $449 price tag is in store only! I bought one last week to replace a 20 year old Windows box and I really like it.

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I’m glad you like it! 20 years out of a Windows machine is impressive :) I have a Windows laptop I bought used in 2016 and about every other year it implodes and I have to reinstall. I’m hoping to put QuickBooks on the new Mini now.

I bought it at Best Buy with them price matching Micro Center.

I have 4 Micro Centers “nearby” - they are all 2 hours each way so I couldn’t go to the store. I did consider it but couldn’t afford the time away from my work

PC Richards had the next best price around $525 but I couldn’t tell if it was a third party seller.

Walmart had a decent price but it was a third party seller I’d never heard of.

I also always check Small Dog and OWC - I bought my refurbished 2014 Mini at OWC.

Apple had a refurbished one for $509

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I have no text problems but I’m probably not the best person to answer that. Low def is fine with me. Most things I watch are files on my computer or DVDs. LD makes smaller files. I keep the studio at 720P cause I like images big. Some of the things I watch were made in the 40s, rather LD to start with.

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Oh boy

DXO RAW DeepPrimeXD conversion

19 minutes on the 2014 Mini

Less than a minute on the M4

I can’t see the smilies but trust me there is a big grin on my face :D

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I recently purchased an M4 mini (24GB/1TB). After a lot of research, and on the advice of a couple of friends who had already gone in this direction, I paired it with an Insignia 4K 43-inch television monitor via HDMI 2.1. The quality of the picture is stunning, and text is razor sharp! Much to my surprise, I didn’t have to adjust anything (on the television, or on the Mac) to get what I feel to be the perfect color balance, resolution, and size of things on-screen. The best part was the price of the television monitor…only $150!

In case you were wondering how such a huge, high quality television/monitor could be so inexpensive compared to a dedicated computer monitor with similar specs, it’s because smart televisions are bundled with essentially ads to steer you towards either commercial content prodviders, or they provide access to proprietary commercial programming. These providers subsidize the purchase price of these amazing television monitors. When attached to your computer via HDMI, none of the above stuff matters. You just benefit from the low purchase price!

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Randy that’s amazing! And here I am considering a second 27”-30” Cinema Display.

I bet the TV runs way cooler than what I have.

I’m guessing it’s the 2160p that makes things so crisp? A 1440 wouldn’t work as well right?

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Advertising is part of it. Not necessarily the TV manufacturer directly advertising to you, but companies like Google and Roku pay the TV manufacturers to install their “smart TV” system software, figuring that a lot of customers will subscribe to the services.

But it’s also economies of scale.

All TVs are pretty much the same at the hardware level - a 4K panel (always the same resolution) in various sizes, Wi-Fi, a small number of HDMI ports and maybe (on the more expensive models) an analog input (composite, maybe component) or a tuner (ATSC and a stripped-down NTSC tuner that can only tune channels 3 and 4).

Since all the panels come from a small number of manufacturers (LG, Samsung and maybe a few no-name Chinese manufacturers) and most of the circuitry is based on chipsets from a similarly small number of vendors, the TV manufacturer can source parts dirt-cheap. Combine that with the product placement from streaming services, and that explains most of the price.

In contrast, a computer monitor:

  • Typically comes in sizes that are not popular for TVs. Computer monitors are typically 20-35", while TVs these days are typically 40-95". And far more TVs are sold than computer monitors.
    • And computer monitors often ship in aspect ratios not used for TV, including 16:10 and various ultra-wide aspects.
    • Computer monitors also ship with resolutions that TVs don’t use, including 1440p, 5K, 6K and various ultra-wide resolutions.
  • Computer monitors often have high refresh rates and HDR color. TVs always use standard (low) refresh rates: 24, 25, 30, 50 and 60 Hz. Inexpensive computer monitors are 60 Hz only, but high-end ones (especially those sold to gamers) support much higher frequencies (240 Hz, 300 Hz, sometimes more) and have things like G-Sync.
    • Good TVs do support HDR, but those aren’t the cheap models
  • Computer monitors need different chipsets in order to support video standards like DisplayPort and to extract DisplayPort data streams from USB-C and Thunderbolt data streams.

You can get cheap computer monitors. These are effectively TVs that ship without any speakers or tuners. Which is why they cost so much less. But if your computer monitor has even one hardware feature not shared by a TV, it will require more expensive parts. Not because the parts are any more complicated, but because the manufacturer won’t be able to produce them in the same quantities as TV parts.

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Playing with this today - cannot get QB 2016 to work in Win7 or 10 in Crossover. It won’t initialize the license. I feel that it has something to do with the fact that I bought it from Amazon way back - getting it to install elsewhere I had to do the download from Amazon and then install.

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UTM - I got QB 2016 installed but it gives me errors opening the files. It says they are too large. I can’t restore a backup or open a QBW file. These are files under 100mb, so not that big.

I was able to get the open in Win 11 under Fusion though, but liked the idea of UTM being open source.

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Specific to this - I have an OWC (macsales.com) thunderbolt dock on my M4 mini (it was originally on the M1 mini) and it provides the extra ports I need for various things. They have a number of different options, and occasionally have decent sales, so take a look at their site and subscribe to the newsletter, but if you can wait for a bit, wait for a decent sale. Black friday is always a good option if you can wait until the end of November.

At the moment, I’m using two docks.

For the Mac Mini M4, I have a dock that I had pre-ordered when I bought my Mac Mini M1:
OWCTB4DOCK: 11-Port Thunderbolt Dock (I paid $249 in Feb 21) - 4x Thunderbolt 4 (40GB/s), 3x USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-A (10GB/s), 1x USB 2.0, 1x Gigabit Ethernet, SD card slot, 1x 3.5mm Audio.
I may eventually replace it with a newer dock more suited to the Mini M4, but it works well enough.

For my work MBP (because I finally got them to give me a MBP to replace the Windows laptop), I have this one:
OWCTB3DK14PSG: 14-Port Thunderbolt Dock (I paid $99.99 in Jul 24 but they were running a REALLY good special) - 2x Thunderbolt 3 (40Gb/s), 1x USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-C (10Gb/s), 5x USB 3.2 Gen 1 Type-A (600MB/s), 1x Mini Display Port, 1x Gigabit Ethernet, 1x S/PDIF Digital Audio, 1x 3.5mm Stereo Audio input/Output combo, 1x microSD slot, 1x SD card slot, up to 85W power to the host computer.

These are probably the 3rd and 4th docks I’ve purchased from OWC. None have ever failed, and they worked flawlessly until I upgraded past their capabilities (the first one had firewire…). I’ve been extremely happy with them.

They have a number of other options, and their customer support has been excellent for the few times I’ve called to ask questions - so it might be worth calling them with questions. They also offer chat on the website.

I realized that I didn’t address the monitors. Both systems are using USB-C connectivity for the monitors. The dock for the work MBP is using USB-C connectivity to an ASUS ROG Strix XG49WCR. I bought the monitor from MicroCenter - I went in to get another 32" curved monitor for a 2 monitor setup, and then decided that a single 49" curved monitor would work. It’s been wonderful to use for work.
The dock for the M4 mini is using a USB-C to DisplayPort cable to connect to a Dell S3220DGF curved monitor. Although it technically doesn’t need a dock, I still have the dock to connect other things (external hard drives, wired mouse).

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As I said, I was able to get QB working fine on UTM, but I was using the current version (24?). I also configured the virtual machine with 8 GB RAM and I used a 64 GB drive size limit.

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That’s a good idea to check the size of the space - thanks! I’ll also try creating a new file to see if it lets me open it again.

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I forgot to ask - you’re using Win 10 or 11?

I initially tried them with Win 7 as I’ve been told QBDT will likely stop working with newer versions. But apparently you can’t run Win 7 in a virtual machine on a newer Mac. So I went for 11

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I’m using 11 - I’m not sure whether there is a version of 10 that will run on Apple Silicon / ARM chips?

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I may go to that next. I realized UTM does allow for emulation so I can do Win 7 but it’s pretty buggy. Had a hard time with screen resolution and a web browser in general. If QB fails again I’ll go up one version and try again.

Overall though UTM is way easier for me than VirtualBox ever was.