Move music library

My explanation was based on personal experience in conjunction of what I learned from Apple Support. Perhaps it is influenced by the fact that my $8K Apple 7.1 2019 Desktop computer has not functioned properly almost since the day I received it, about 18 months ago, and currently I have been waiting for close to 2 months for Apple for them to get parts to either try to repair it again or replace it.

There is other metadata other than what Music Info shows in music files that can influence sort order and other factors of the track. For advanced users I recommend MusicBrainzPicard, a free Mac app to examine and modify them to your liking.

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All I will say here is that the system used is not self-obvious and I don’t really trust Apple support for questions about how/why stuff works. I’ve found that enthusiast groups (like TidBITS) tend to know a lot more than support people.

What metadata in particular are you referring to when you mention the MusicBrainz app and imply that only “advanced” users would benefit from it. Sounds somewhat arrogant. The iTunes app can sort in a variety of ways and there’s always tricks one can use to affect sort outcomes. I sympathize with your computer issues but it’s irrelevant to the discussion.

I’m not sure what you mean by “the system used is not self-obvious” but I do agree that Apple support is not always going to be the best choice for information as that would depend on the representative you speak with as well as what level in the support chain that individual is on. TidBITS is a great source as you say as well as MacRumors and apple.stackexchange.com for other resources.

The only reason I suggest advanced users is due to the fact that the MusicBrainz GUI is not particularly friendly or intutive and naive users might be more likely to damage a track or accidently delete it while trying to edit it. My computer experience IS reliavent as given it is not properly working, it could be contributing to behavior not present in other properly working Mac’s.

MusicBrainz helps users avoid ‘tricks’ and allows them to add additional metadata about their tracks, especially if they are not purchased from the Music Store. It is also useful when recovering tracks with corrupted metadata. That said a well written and properly thought out and tested App should not requre the user to resort to 'trick’s to get their desired results as Music sometimes does. It seems to get particularly dicey when trying to create compilations.

I agree with you about Apple Support. It seems to be a crapshot. Sometimes you get a really good, experienced and well trained agent and sometimes quite the opposite. That is why it is generally a good idea to do some research and get information from multiple sources including the ones you have mentioned.

The chaotic database structure that we now have with apple music*, in my experience, makes doing anything with the music library dangerous. That isn’t helpful, I’ll grant you, but given that 1 in 2 times that I sync my mac with my phone my mac library gets corrupted, I’ve learned to make a backup to another device that is unplugged when doing the sync. Recovering is a pain, but better than dealing with some playlists being randomly emptied. This has been going on for many years.

*So the problem with the streaming service being called music and the mac app now being called music is that you can’t search apple support or discussions for any information about the app, and anything you find under itunes is out of date. Good grief.

Itunes was always microsoft quality software, and music is no better.

I assume your last sentence, “Itunes was always microsoft quality software, and music is no better.” is a negative comment but it could be construed otherwise not that I’m a Microsoft fan.

But iTunes has always been excellent software from my perspective but did get somewhat bloated as time went on. I only use it for music management, some CD ripping, and phone syncing. I’ve tried the newer Music app but I still prefer the older iTunes versions such as 10.7 with CoverFlow which still can be installed using Retroactive. I’ve never had any issues with database corruption, missing art, etc. but I tend to be very careful when I rip a CD to make sure that the Gracenote metadata is correct and I acquire the cover art myself. No purchased music from Apple and no iCloud involved which I think is where some of the problems are judging by comments in another thread. I’ve used the same setup on three or four other computers with no issues on those either.

But I hear your frustration in regards to finding information since the service and app are the same name. Maybe others here can suggest a similar program but for my needs, the older iTunes versions work fine and since my computer can’t upgrade past Catalina, it doesn’t matter at this point. When I get a newer computer, I assume that might change my opinion.

Wow, thanks for the Retroactive tip jk2gs - I’m still running Mojave, primarily to retain access to iTunes. I have a huge podcast collection and feared the newer Podcasts app wouldn’t suit my needs (if I correctly understand it), nor have I found an alternative podcast catcher app offering features on par with iTunes

  • here’s hoping Retroactive will get updated for Monterey, since I’ve now missed the option to upgrade to Big Sur

Does iTunes via Retroactive still permit subscribing to podcast feeds?

Thanks for the reply. I only listen to podcasts very rarely so I can’t say on that feature but I do enjoy the Radio feature which still works although some of the links are out of date on the 10.7 version but you can always enter a URL for that.

As I understand Retroactive, you are running the same iTunes app as before, so its capabilities should be the same.

Will Apple’s Podcast database (for searching for new podcasts) be available? I don’t know, but if it works for you today (with iTunes on Mojave), then it should work for the same version of iTunes on Big Sur via Retroactive.

In the worst case, if the Podcast database doesn’t work, you should be able to subscribe to podcasts via their RSS URL.

BTW, if you want to upgrade to Big Sur, you still can. Apple provides a page with App Store links to installers for older versions of macOS:

Note, however, that you need to be running a version of macOS older than Big Sur in order to download the installer. The App Store fails with an error if you try to download from a Mac running Big Sur.

Thank you very much David
Roger that re: Podcast database updates and using RSS URL’s
In the meantime I’ve encountered a couple of RSS feeds that don’t ‘take’ using that method and have a suspicion perhaps they’re configured in a way to only work for the Podcast app, fortunately they’re also available for direct download
And thanks for the Older macOS version link - methinks I might finally take the Big Sur plunge and wait till Monterey gets potential kinks worked out
Cheers

Thanks anyway jk2gs - you’re reference to Retroactive is a godsend!! iTunes is about the only reason I’ve still been running Mojave

You’re welcome Jeff. I only recently started to use Catalina on a consistent basis after I was able to be sure that my older iTunes would still work as well as some other apps. But there are still a few I need Mojave for so I keep that on a separate partition and back that up of course so I still have it as I have done for some other older Mac OS systems. So even if you’re going to upgrade, I would keep the Mojave version for possible future use.

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For the most part, the older apps that Retroactive can install should have the same capabilities. But one app that doesn’t work as it should on Catalina is iPhoto which still works fine in Mojave. There are issues with the print dialogs as well as the slide show feature so I just use Photos instead. My old iTunes 10.7 CoverFlow works fine for what I do which is CD rips, music management, and Radio tuner listening so I would think that the newer versions should be fine but these are old apps so working with newer OS versions is bound to break some features here and there.

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I forgot one thing. The other day, I came across this site which has all of the iTunes versions with some screen shots so that might be of some help or just to remember how it all began:

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Sweet - brings back fond memories… Podcasts in 2005, that’s when I took my first sip of that koolaid - and even though I’ve had my trials and travails with iTunes, it still is one of the better AV database managers I’ve come across
Before finding out about Retroactive (thank you very much) I was looking at a hybrid solution, hoping to use DEVONthink for the ‘database’ part and an alternative to Podcasts app podcatcher / player for that part…

Thanks. I’ve been using iTunes since version 2 (bundled with my 2002 PowerMac) and I’ve always been a fan. This retrospective makes it very clear where the feature-creep/app-bloat started kicking in - at version 6.

Up until that point, it was strictly an audio player. And a really good one. Starting with version 6, Apple started throwing in features for other kinds of media (music videos, movies, TV shows) and then features to make it the hub of iOS device management.

Had they avoided the bloat and instead created separate apps for video, books, iOS management, etc, we’d probably have ended up where we are today, but without the intervening bloat. Whether it would have retained more of its iTunes roots (especially in the UI) is an interesting question to discuss, even though nobody can possibly know.

I agree that iTunes is one of the better AV database managers as you said. I started with version 2 around 2001 I think and thankfully I’ve never had database issues that some posters have mentioned. So as long as I can keep going with my present setup, then I will continue with iTunes and not worry about the Music app.

You’re welcome David. I also go back to version 2 as I mentioned in the previous post. I think it was around 2001 or so. I think I had used something before that which was some sort of mp3 player but I can’t recall. I was using a Performa 6400/200 PowerPC which I had upgraded to a G3 at some point with a Sonnet card. I still have it and use it here and there as I have an Epson scanner which was decent then and now and since I don’t scan all that much, I just never bothered to get a newer one.

As for the bloat, I guess I never worried about it since I only used it for the purposes I mentioned earlier but for those who used it for other purposes like video purchases, apps etc. I think there was/is a bit much there. I should also mention that although I do my CD rips in mp3 format on iTunes, I use XLD for aiff rips since it can check against its database for errors. I’ve only had maybe two or three discs have issues when ripped in iTunes, but those could have been done on my old Performa or Powerbook G4 which could explain the errors as those drives were old and still in use (and still work) when I did a lot of ripping.