Landlines and Princess phones

TidBITS Talk
21

If it was back in the 70’s, the the older SS5 protocol was used, which does use in-band tones for signaling (which is why Woz’s infamous phone phreaking devices worked at the time - those devices all stopped working when the phone companies switched to SS7).

In order to direct-dial a long distance or international call over an SS5 network, tones need to be generated. Probably more than just the digits you’ve dialed, but pulses would definitely not work.

After switching from SS5 to SS7, there was no longer any purpose for tones except for reading digits from a customer’s phone. I would assume that any pulse-to-tone conversion stopped happening as a part of that same transition.

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22

That makes sense, but isn’t there still a way for the telcos to convert pulses from a customer’s rotary dial phone? I used to have a technician phone that was basically a handset with a rotary dial on the back of the earpiece and connected to the phone line via two alligator clips; if I still had it, I could see if a rotary phone would still work.

23

It’s definitely possible. Software to decode pulses is trivial. As is software to generate tones. I simply fail to see a reason why the telcos would ever need to perform this conversion.

24

Yes, the battery will die after some period of time. However, in my case, I actually have 3 handsets (1 on the base station and 2 on remotes in other rooms). So when the battery dies on one handset, I can switch to a fresher one.

Actually, I no longer use POTS but run by landline through an Ooma VOIP router. So, any messages are stored centrally and can be accessed via the Ooma mobile app if I can get cellular data service. I can also use that app to place calls via my landline number.

25

My Panasonic KX-TGF383M has backup batteries in the base unit (which also has a corded handset); it was those batteries that died even with the call answering section turned off. When those batteries died, even the corded handset didn’t work, so it was Opus to the rescue.

26

My father did the same but didn’t remove the ringer. Occasionally when a Ma Bell technician had to come to the house the phone port in our basement would disappear. We always hid the phone whenever a technician came over. I didn’t know that the bell was the element that revealed the extra load on the system.

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My youngest son is a huge fan of old and odd phones, and has quite a collection. He’s worked with his local phone company, installed his own converters, and all his rotary and touch tone phones work great. My grandkids love calling me on their Disney phones, proudly telling grandma that they’re calling on Mickey, or Donald, or whichever character. Cracks me up.

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28

Most legacy pair gain systems are probably still fed by copper pairs. The rapid deployment of directional boring is quickly running fiber to these systems but its saturation is a ways off.

The legacy landline (dialtone) is still more reliable than cellular but, probably not by a lot these days, except in a community emergency. During my 35-year career with a former Bell Operating Company, I learned a lot how the system works including they system(s) that has done an amazing job of REPLACING it.

If one wants a “belt AND suspenders” approach to assuring voice connectivity in a bona fide emergency, having BOTH a landline and wireless phone is best. This will be “driven home” during and after the next, major disaster.

The legacy copper network hasn’t been decommissioned or downsized. It has simply become FAR less used than before wireless. The capacity and robustness of its network remains.

During and after a community-wide - or larger - disaster, those of us with landlines will enjoy VOICE connectivity WELL before those with only wireless. Both systems have a finite capacity. Under duress, the system with the fewest users will provide the most prompt connectivity.

Everyone has a phone in their pocket now. Most of them have long since turned-off their old dialtone service. This is fine and even expected. It won’t be shown to be a concern or problem until the next disaster. It’s not IF. It’s WHEN.

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29

As a career (now retired) phoneman, I once had 23 such phones. We’re down to five that don’t require external AC power: One in each of three bathrooms, the Trimline® next to my bed and a working antique from 1935: An Automatic Electric™ Model 461 wall phone in the kitchen. When the lights go out, these all work perfectly as we are on a solid, copper pair of wires - all but the last block of which are underground - all the way to the CenturyLink Central Office three miles away.

Not long ago, I bought a six-handset cordless system that has a built-in battery backup that provides usability for some time following loss of shore power.

30

As a retired utility worker, I would like to respectfully respond to the PG&E-bashing - some of it deserved, I’m sure - with some factors probably not otherwise considered.

Much blame should be placed on California for many of its draconian and ill-advised environmental regulations. The clearing/removal of wildfire FUEL, just laying on the ground, is prohibited. The clearing of electrical transmission rights-of-way is prohibited. There are other states with areas prone to wildfire. They do not have these seemingly regular disasters because their electric utilities are allowed to maintain the areas surrounding their infrastructure in a manner that has been proven to significantly reduce such risk.

As for the 2010 San Bruno explosion: The pipeline that burst was installed in 1956. It was designed and passed inspection of the day. Subsequent, significant increases in “normal” pressure, combined with an aging weld - not made to withstand today’s higher pressures - was the cause of the explosion. The collateral damage was caused by allowing the siting of homes too closely YEARS after the line was built.

Most disastrous infrastructure failures are due to both the infrastructure itself AND government regulation including lack of inspection. Remember: Government at ALL levels rarely achieves a reputation of efficiency or efficacy.

Of course, since all energy companies are inherently evil, PG&E is solely to blame. Still, a little information MIGHT improve ones’ perspective.

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31

Jim, it isn’t the rank and file utility workers that people blame; rather it is the greedy board members and upper management of PG&E, SoCal Edison, and SDG&E and their lapdogs, the CPUC! Maybe if instead of paying exorbitant salary and benefits to them, they had invested in giving the worker bees the proper supplies, tools, and equipment plus better compensation, there would not have been San Bruno or the Camp Fire disasters.

It’ll probably take another 100 years before the copper wiring to every house in these United States is replaced.

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32

That’s exactly right.

And before we engage in any more PG&E whitewashing, let me just remind @JimRedelfs that PG&E was convicted by a Federal Court on felony charges. If the City of San Bruno or the environmental laws of CA were at fault, I’m sure those entities would have entered this ruling. But they didn’t. PG&E alone was convicted as a felon. And just to let sink in what their management accounts for, let me quote from the Wiki page.

An additional indictment was issued by the grand jury on July 29, 2014, charging the company with obstruction of justice for lying to the NTSB regarding its pipeline testing policy, bringing the total number of counts in the indictment to 28. Under the new indictment, the company could be fined as much as $1.3 billion, based on profit associated with the alleged misconduct, in addition to $2.5 billion for state regulatory violations.
On January 21, 2017, PG&E was fined $3 million and ordered to perform 10,000 hours of community service for criminal actions of violating the Natural Gas Pipeline Safety Act and for obstruction of justice. In addition, it must institute a compliance and ethics monitoring program and spend up to $3 million to “publicize its criminal conduct”. These actions were imposed after the company was found guilty by a federal jury in August 2016 of six of the twelve charges against the company in US District Court.
…
On January 13, 2012, an independent audit from the State of California issued a report stating that PG&E had illegally diverted over $100 million from a fund used for safety operations, and instead used it for executive compensation and bonuses.

Also, PG&E already pled guilty to 84 counts of involuntary manslaughter in the aftermath of the 2018 Camp Fire. How’s that for admission of guilt?

Feel free to look it up if you don’t want to take my word for it.

The laws and regulations in CA are a bona fide fact. If the management of PG&E cannot conduct business safely under those laws, they are free to get lost and hand over their infrastructure to another entity who will commit to the same laws and regulations governing all business in the State of CA. Once they choose to make money here, they will follow our laws or they will be held accountable. Plain and simple.

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33

We have a maybe 5-year-old corded AT&T phone with answering machine that works as a simple phone without the AC connection as long as it’s connected to the phone wire. The voicemail and other features that need wall current don’t work, but it’s still a usable phone. We’re on Verizon FiOS, but use the old copper wires in our 1895 house, and the Verizon box has a battery backup in case of power outage, although it’s limited to a few hours.

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There is another case, fiber or cable phone. I’m on FiOS so no power, no phone service. But still good to have as an alternative to cell in many emergencies. Do you feel that these systems are as reliable as copper, aside from need for power in the house. An aside, many people with copper seem to have phones that require external power anyway.

The other question is how you feel about reliability of cloud based phone systems. I am thinking of office systems such as Ring Central or 8x8 that are replacing office PBXs. I made that change in December.

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Maybe. FiOS’s ONT units include a battery backup unit (BBU). Years ago, when it was required by law, Verizon shipped all ONTs with a battery installed in the BBU. Today, it is no longer required by law, so the BBU does not ship with a battery in it, but you can install one yourself.

Verizon will sell you one for about $40. Or you can buy one from anywhere else.

With the battery installed, the ONT will continue to operate and provide voice (but not TV or data) service for about 8 hours during an outage. In order to allow an emergency call, during an extended outage, the ONT will switch off when the battery runs low, before it completely drains. A button on the ONT can be used to switch it on again, allowing you to make voice calls until the battery completely runs out (about one additional hour, typically)

Of course, if you want to keep your TV and Internet running during an outage, you can plug the ONT into a traditional UPS, either in addition to or instead of the battery in its BBU.

36

Unfortunately that is not good enough when the deliberate power cutoffs by the power company last 2 - 3 days.

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37

The legacy phone company virtually invented the U.P.S. (Uninterruptible Power Supply). To this day, their switching systems operate on -48VDC. That means all the computers, relays, backup systems and whatever else is required to produce dialtone and switch calls. The only thing NOT running off battery power is the HVAC for the building that houses the switch.

And it’s technically NOT a U.P.S. which, by design, SWITCHES to battery backup in the event of a “shore power” outage. The telco system runs 24/7 on a HUGE battery that is continuously recharged by rectified grid power. This is how, with more than a few exceptions these days, when the lights go out you can still place and receive calls on an old-fashioned telephone set that requires only a telco connection - no external power supply required.

Each cell of the huge battery I mention is about the dimensions of a 20-25-gallon cylinder. Each cell is of the flooded, lead acid type. Depending on the size of the Central Office and its switching equipment, the battery room can be VERY large, housing hundreds of such cells.

Before the deployment of the pair gain system, every line consisted of a pair of copper wires with one end inside the C.O. and the other inside the customer’s telephone. It was common that this pair of conductors extended many miles out into the rural. Picture in your mind a common two-wire extension cord laying on top of the ground from downtown to the farm house furthest away from the C.0. 10, 15, 20 miles is (still is) common and even longer lengths exist in certain, particularly remote locations. As you can imagine, building such infrastructure was no small task nor is its maintenance. (Call before you dig.)

The scheduled, or at least announced with some advance notice, outages in California and our having acquired so much equipment that REQUIRES A.C. power, the need for individual power generation grows greater every day. Some years ago, I purchased a Honda EU2000i portable, gasoline-powered generator. I paid dearly for it but proved that you get what you pay for. It is ultra-quiet. Two people can stand directly over it - under FULL load - and hold a “normal” conversation. It is an “inverter” generator. That is, it generates D.C. power that is rectified to PURE sine wave A.C. power suitable for powering sensitive electronics. Because of this technology, the engine can throttle down, drastically reducing already minimal operating noise, until the load demands - then it revs up. This thing would run ALL your electronic equipment at the same time including a HUGE flat screen and whatever computer and personal devices you may wish to charge. This particular model is “portable” (note quotes) and, with a little judicious extension cord jockeying, can run a large refrigerator (by itself) to get it back down to nominal coolness and, by itself, even a gas furnace. We spend more on far less utilitarian things so this should be completely “do-able” to anyone wishing to stay up-and-running in the event of a grid outage.

Many (most?) of us are well informed in the care and feeding of wind power and photovoltaic systems (solar). That’s fine and good information. We should become equally informed in what’s available in the field of consumer, “high” capacity, standby power provided by the fossil-fueled engine. That technology has advanced right along with “alternative” power.

Reliability: Given that all service providers have ready standby power, whichever service you choose should be “equally” reliable, even in a power outage. The reliability of each will be tested during the next community-wide - or larger - disaster. It is the post-disaster evaluation(s) that will determine the most reliable under those conditions.

They have standby power. You should, too. IF you do, even when the lights go out, you’ll still have cable, internet and landline phone. With a generator, the fun never has to stop. :slightly_smiling_face:

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38

Holy cats, I had no idea. Cells the size of 25-gallon drums? The mind boggles.

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Take a look at this article from 2016:

The last photo (#14) shows the battery room of a large-scale central office in New York City:

1000×714 219 KB

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40

We lived in a hurricane prone area in NC. I picked up an old Princess phone at one of our rummage sales! Only had to use it once but it was great comfort to have it available - still have it in my hurricane box where I keep my emergency stuff because we’ve moved to Raleigh area and those darned hurricanes think we out to keep on ducking!

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