We’ve been using an Orbi mesh router from Netgeaer for a couple of years and for most of that time it’s been impossible to log in and do any configuration. It works but no configuration means I can’t for instance go in and reserve an IP in the DHCP server for a new printer we got. Netgear basically broke the firmware and their “fix” is to reset to factory default, load the latest firmware and redo the entire network. I’m not sure how if the firmware won’t allow connection for configuration a factory reset will help since that doesn’t affect the installed firmware…and comments on their support board indicate that this approach is only sometimes successful.
And article in the WSJ this week indicates that Cisco and Netgear routers have also been compromised although it isn’t clear whether that’s talking about home routers or backbone routers.
So…I’ve been looking for a replacement and had pretty much settled on a TP-Link Deco mesh system…but then we’ve seen the recent brouhaha in various news media about TP Link gear being compromised and used for potentially nefarious purposes by the Chinese.
The others I was considering were LinkSys (Foxconn subsidiary and hence potentially compromised by the Chinese) and Asus (based in Taiwan)…and I don’ think any of them are made by US companies.
I need a 2 node mesh system and Netgear/Orbi are out (bad firmware and lack of support)…and we’re not interested in anything from Google or Amazon since their gear is too intrusive for our taste.
Are there others I should consider that are US made or is Asus the best solution here?
I don’t have a specific recommendation (my mesh routers are provided as part of my Internet service by my ISP) but I do think if country-of-manufacture is important to you, you will need to dig deeper than the name on the device enclosure. This is because the guts of a lot of gear, especially networking hardware, is actually made by a small number of companies. Many of these companies are based in China.
Unfortunately, this is not a new problem. Your post reminded me of ongoing coverage from Bruce Schneier that began several years ago. For example:
Yep…and really don’t care about country of manufacture but since Orbi has demonstrated an inability to fix their firmware and TP Link is under active investigation thought that staying away from ROC is the better answer. Asus is Taiwanese and I’m guessing they don’t use firmware from the mainland folks…but basically nobody makes them here.
Too bad about TP Link…the gear seems great from a price/performance/feature standpoint…and maybe I’m overthinking not buying from them. From an actual security/privacy standpoint…pretty much everything on the web is https these days so that traffic is encrypted before it gets to the router and Mail uses TLS and hence is also encrypted… I suppose that theoretically someone with a back door could prowl around my LAN but everything that needs protecting there is password protected (1Password for instance) and it’s probably unlikely that a Chinese intelligence agency would spend the effort to prowl around every LAN in the US anyway. High value targets sure…but regular ordinary internet users there’s not much to gain outside of reading documents and getting access to personal info.
If you are willing to spend a bit more, Ubiquiti is a US company.
Their “Unifi” branded products are for enterprise installations and cost quite a lot, but they also have a line of AmpliFi products aimed at consumer networks.
I haven’t personally used their products, but from everything I’ve read, they have a good reputation for high performance and quality, but at a price higher than mass-market items.
If Unifi products are beyond your budget, then I’d suggest Asus. They have a good reputation for quality and they are definitely not controlled by the Chinese government.
I was very disappointed when Belkin sold the Linksys brand to Foxconn. Foxconn is a high quality manufacturer (they make a lot of Apple’s products), but as a Chinese corporation, their connected products make me nervous. Not so much that I want to immediately rip-and-replace my Velop mesh routers, but I will be looking at some other brand (probably Unifi or Asus) when it comes time to upgrade them.
Another option is to get routers that run the open source OpenWRT operating system. OpenWRT is basically a Linux distribution designed to run on consumer networking gear. Some commercial routers can be re-imaged with OpenWRT and you can buy some routers with OpenWRT pre-installed. (See also the supported devices list).
They even sell their own hardware, the OpenWRT One, which is a custom circuit board based on the Banana Pi computer, with chips for high-speed packet forwarding.
Of course, if you go this route, you’re going to be maintaining/upgrading your router’s OpenWRT firmware much like you would for a Linux PC. So it’s not a set-and-forget solution.
For what it’s worth, Foxconn is headquartered in Taiwan and has plants in Mainland China, among other places. Furthermore, in 2018, Belkin became a subsidiary of Foxconn, although its headquarters remain in California. At some point after that, Linksys was transferred from the Belkin to another subsidiary of Foxconn.
Can you specify your own DHCP range and LAN IP subnet or is fixed on something? If I can’t use 192.168.1.x then I have to reconfigure a lot more things than just the router:-)
I’ll probably go Asus anyway at this point anyway though.
I use Eero in two houses and it’s great for me - set it and forget it, I can manage from anywhere, easy to adjust MAC address assignments if you need to, they automatically update their own firmware, I’ve not had a single issue over almost seven years now, … but, it’s Amazon.
If I was choosing something for home and it couldn’t be Eero, I’d use Ubiquiti, probably the Ubiquiti Unifi Express (or the Dream Router if I needed the extra ethernet ports) and an U6 Extender if I needed extra devices. I haven’t used Ubiquiti, but I know people who have.
Don’t mistake inability to fix it, for unwillingness to fix it. I’ve got far too many devices, from wifi routers to smart light bulbs, which the makers are simply uninterested in supporting any longer.
For what it’s worth, my router is an ASUS ZenWIFI AC, and I still like it…but it’s been a long time since ASUS put out any firmware updates for it.
I have a TP-Link home router that has performed well over the past couple of years (with a 1 Gig Cox cable internet connection). It gets hot but I have had no failures.
But one thing has concerned me: as far as I can tell there have been no firmware updates over the entire time I have owned it. When I force it to search for updated firmware it says nothing is available. I was using Netgear previously and got used to having firmware updates presented every couple of months.
I just bought a new home (still Cox - but now fibre to the home and symmetrical 1 Gig or 2 Gig service is available. For at least the time being I am just going to have them install their WiFi router and see how that goes. (I think it is manufactured by Technicolor (?) but I don’t know where the hardware is manufactured.) Cox is pretty diligent about pushing out updates (to the Modem and WiFi) so I will see how that goes.
In Australia ISP Telstra provides Technicolor routers (branded Telstra). They seem OK and I can easily configure the settings, including assigning a static IP for some peripherals.
Telstra also sell a wifi extender which is an alternative to a mesh system. In effect this is a wifi router in bridge mode. If feasible, it is best to connect the router and extender with ethernet.
I did try an Orbi mesh system a few years ago but encountered configuration problems. Also I was wary of having to register the system online in order to get it working. So I took it back to the store.
Another issue is that the Telstra-supplied router must be used for connecting to the broadband modem & internet. I did try turning its wifi off and using a TP-Link router for wifi and ethernet (Telstar LAN out to WAN in on TP-Link) - but the wifi coverage was not improved.
I’ve tinkered with OpenWRT to extend the useful lifetime of some older routers that are no longer supported by their manufacturers, though I haven’t done so in a mesh configuration. Installing and configuring it does require moderate technical expertise. Troubleshooting it can be a particular challenge, especially if the initial installation fails, but it can be a fun and worthwhile project.
As an aside, since OpenWRT is nothing more than a special purpose Linux distribution, you can use it to enable interesting functions that many router manufacturers no longer support. For example, most router manufacturers no longer support using their routers as traditional print servers, e.g., for USB printers, but there are several packages you can add to OpenWRT to support CUPS or other printer services. (Note that customizing OpenWRT functionality depends in part on the size of a router’s flash storage. Devices with smaller amounts of storage may not be suitable for print services or other capabilities.)
I know nothing about Cox’s hardware, but I always recommend against ISP-provided equipment, if you can buy your own because:
You usually pay a monthly rental fee for the equipment. Buying your own, even if it is expensive, will usually pay for itself after about two years of service.
If your router/modem are combined (as is often the case with cable systems, not necessarily with fiber), you should use separate components instead, so you can upgrade/configure the router.
Cable companies always lock-down their modems. I assume so you can’t use them to tap your neighbors’ communication. So updates to modem configuration and firmware are always pushed in by your ISP and you can’t control when. Even if you know the manufacturer has an updated firmware image, all you an do is ask the ISP to push it out to you and hope that they choose to do so.
I’ve found that for a combined modem/router, your ISP will lock the entire device. So you can’t upgrade the router firmware, even if it is separate from the modem firmware. They may also lock-down some or all of the router configuration. But if you have two separate devices (as I do - a cable modem and a router connected together by a short Ethernet cable), your ISP will control/lock the modem and you will be free to do what you want with the router.
This having been said, you may not have an option, depending on your broadband service.
When I was using Verizon FiOS (my previous home), Verizon installed the ONT that terminates the fiber and originates the Ethernet/MoCA links used within the home. And they provide their own router that connects to the ONT via one of these two links. There is no way to supply your own ONT, or configure it yourself. The router can be replaced, but doing so can break some features of the FiOS TV service, so it isn’t recommended. So I put up with its bugs the whole time I had their service. (At least they didn’t charge rental fees for it on top of the monthly service fees.)
When I had problems with Verizon’s Wi-Fi, I kept their router, but disabled its Wi-Fi interface and connected one of its Ethernet ports to a separate Wi-Fi router that I configured into bridge mode, which worked surprisingly well. I ran this hybrid configuration for many years until I moved to a new home that only had cable modem service.
I’ve had the Ubiquiti/Unifi Dream Router (their home router) since July 2023, and am quite happy with it. Deep, pro-level configuration options in reasonably intuitive web (or native IOS app) interface. Certainly you can reserve IP addresses for specific devices.
Cons: There may be specific devices that don’t play well with it, as it’s less common in the home market (I believe Ubiquiti leades the industry for pro wifi). Its fan spins up around 80ºF (I have it on a high shelf), which is a little distracting if you share a room with it.
It is a 7" high cylinder (no external wi-fi antennas), with a tiny pill-shaped display…
I haven’t tried meshing it (it covers my home), but here’s a discussion of that.
Been using Eero for many years and happy with it. Started with the original version but have since upgraded to the Pro 6. Software updates occur automatically at 2-4 weeks intervals.
I think that’s exactly the case…they would rather sell me the newer model of the Orbi gear but given it was their firmware update that disabled the ability to configure them I’m not going down that path again.
Don’t mistake inability to fix it, for unwillingness to fix it. I’ve got far too many devices, from wifi routers to smart light bulbs, which the makers are simply uninterested in supporting any longer.
Answering other comments as well.
I looked at the AmpliFy gear and the remote units don’t have ethernet ports which I need back in the office. The higher priced Ubiquity gear seems overkill as it’s more geared toward larger installations. We used Ubiquity gear in our RV up until 2020 and I was never all that impressed with it’s capabilities though.
WRT open source…eh, that’s more futzing than I’m willing to do…after all my wife who is computer literate but not really an IT person needs to be able to upgrade and administer it as well.
And as I said…google or amazon gear is too intrusive with their wish to (a) know everything and (b) control everything. So I’m going to go and research the Asus gear again and will either upgrade to it or try the reset on the Orbi gear…which outside of the firmware issue has been pretty reliable.
I’ve been using an Orbi RBR50 for years with 3 satellites. I configured it via the web interface (“http://www.routerlogin.net”). Firmware version V2.7.4.24 but I rarely even think about it because it works and I rarely have to mess with it. I think I’ve done a reset in the past, and I was able to save a backup of the config to a file and then restore that backup after the reset.