Well, if Password Wallet is not the answer…what is?
I will NOT pay for a subscription with 1Password, and I need to move on.
What else is out there that manages passwords and is not subscription based?
I guess I need to go back up in this thread…
Rich
I don’t understand the objection to paying a subscription for such a valuable service, designed to protect financial accounts etc. Or did they raise the price to something exorbitant? I think I only pay something like $35 a year! I pay more than that a MONTH for home security. I can’t imagine a more valuable computer service at such a reasonable price. I have no connection with
AgileBits other than as a satisfied customer.
I don’t care about paying a subscription but I am uncomfortable with the idea of not maintaining my passwords locally. That is my concern about this upcoming version. I don’t want them stored on anybody’s cloud!
Nls:
I guess if you are happy paying an annual fee, that is you business.
If I paid subscription fees for everything that has them nowadays, tv shows, software, I even read where Toyota is now charging people annual fees to use their key fobs, I would be broke in no time.
I don’t believe that software updates are always worth the price, and new “features” are not really new or “features.”
I want a choice to upgrade or not.
Make an update compelling enough and I’d buy it.
Can’t do that….not my issue.
I do not see the value in it.
In fact, a recent update to a ripper app I use was updated again with more features after many of their customers said they would not upgrade because the new “features” were not compelling enough to pay the price.
The market and the value should drive the pricing.
That is me….and how I think about this stuff.
I run zero subscription software and won’t buy an app if it has a subscription.
Rich the Westher guy
The key here is whether the software provides a continuing service or not. If the software or associated database require constant updates in order to maintain it’s usefulness. Such services often require daily attention and charging only for updates is not sustainable for the developer who has no or few new features or bugs to correct to the app, but still has to react quickly to changes in the OS or updates to required databases. His only other choice would be to overprice the app which likely places them at a distinct disadvantage to similar apps that are subscription based.
I completely disagree Al.
You have a product and there is a cost to maintain it.
Price it so you make money. That is your problem, not mine.
Lower your overhead, etc, etc, etc…this is business.
Be competitive.
Also, I do agree, I don’t want my passwords maintained somewhere else…just another reason I moving on.
Rich
Wasn’t an opinion. Just stating the way things have are in the service industry and it took many software providers time to realize that and evolve. You mentioned a couple of other such industries yourself.
There are many software apps which have switched to the subscription model without justification, I agree.
I just think a password program like 1Password is a good example of an app which is really an ongoing service and not a “one-shot deal” and thus one where the subscription model is appropriate.
The last thing I would want in a service designed to protect my privacy, my safety and my financial accounts is for them to “lower their overhead, etc.” in order to stay in business.
For decades and decades, there was constant growth in the number of people buying and using computers, increasing the number of potential software buyers, and that was how software makers sustained themselves. Where are those new buyers of software going to come from now when the market is saturated and people simply transfer their existing software over when replacing aging computers.
Password Wallet…as I said it’s a great if somewhat limited product. I’ve talked to the author numerous times over the years and suggested improving the sync options…which in my mind is the single biggest flaw. He’s not interested…not complaining about that as it’s his app and he should do whatever he wants…but. It makes it considerably less useful than 1PW was until v8. In addition…he’s a one man band at selznick.com…and the last update to the web site was in January of 2020…and the last update to the app is from August of 2020 for Catalina compatibility. All of that and a little digging to see what else he might be doing leads me to believe that the app is almost abandonware…he might update it if it broke with a macOS update but there won’t be any new features, won’t be any improvement in the sync process which only works sometimes anyway. Add into that the fact that he’s the only guy at Selznick Software…not a fault of his but clearly it’s not an ongoing business concern like 1PW is…and at this point I can’t recommend the product.
It will import from a text file…and presumably one could get info from 1PW into it that way…but I haven’t tried it and as I said would not recommend it at this point in time.
I’ve had a Family account at 1PW for a couple of years…but am still using DropBox for sync of my data in stand alone vaults because I would rather do it that way. Nothing wrong with using their servers for sync…and I’m not worried about the company going away…but to my mind they’ve clearly decided that they really aren’t interested in single users anymore compared to their growing business and enterprise market. Nothing wrong with that either…but their recent improvements…if one can call them that, which I do not…are clearly aimed at the enterprise market because once a business gets their app and service embedded into the company it’s going to be a real pain for the business customers to switch to something else. That ensures a steadier revenue stream for 1PW the company…and I’ve no problem with that at all…but it comes at the expense of individual users.
Having a single code base for the back end I have real issue with…but a crappy non-native macOS front end is a terrible idea for Mac users. It’s great for their bottom line…and great for their new venture capital investors who bought a big share of the company. Management made a big deal about how the original owners maintain majority ownership and how their ideal and mission isn’t changing…but anybody that thinks they won’t pay attention to the VC folks who own 20 or 49 or whatever percentage of the company as opposed to individual users is just burying their heads in the sand.
I last tried v8 beta back in August or September and at that point I found issues with it
As a user…I would prefer to not have subscription software…but I understand the perceived need for a company to have a more even revenue stream or a larger revenue stream. I pay for the Adobe Lightroom subscription, as well as DropBox, iCloud and whatnot…so it isn’t that I refuse to use a subscription…it’s that I think users should have a choice.
The problem is that there really aren’t any alternatives for either free or paid options. LastPass has also implemented a crappy subscription model with no local backup/restore/vault location and I’ve spent more time than I like looking for an alternative and really haven’t found one. Enpass appears to be about as close as you can get to the current capabilities of 1PW v7…but unless I’m forced to switch from v7 of 1PW by lack of support for new macOS versions or whatever there’s no real need for me to switch.
At this point…I’m still waiting to see what happens. Assuming that v8 actually has backup/restore capabilities I will keep it as a backup but continue to use v7 for now. If it doesn’t then I’ll use v7 until it breaks and then move elsewhere.
They could offer both options easily…but in the long run they will make more money from a subscription service than from selling individual licenses…and despite their claims that the original owners and management team are in charge…a lot of the changes in v8 are clearly aimed at driving down costs for the company and driving up revenue which is the reason that VCs invest in a company.
Dave Teare is no longer driving the train IMO…he is nominally in charge still but depending on what percentage of the company they sold to the VCs they have a considerable say in what the company does.
Enpass appears to be the best 1PW-like solution.
Thanks Neil…but subscription, no thanks…
Rich
I recognize that I will HAVE TO buy a subscription to “something” at some point if I want to use a particular application.
I am proud to say I eliminated ALL Adobe from my Mac when I dumped Dreamweaver years ago after Adobe went to the subscription model.
There were better IMO alternatives I could buy outright, and I did.
Very happy with those solutions.
1Password “irks” me for several reasons, yes, they hid te buy alone option, I only upgraded to the latest early last year after several emails from them urging me to jump on the subscription bandwagon.
Eventually, they sold me the stand alone version. That whole episode did not sit well with me.
So now here we are, and EVERYTHING (expect possibly Apple) seems to get hacked at some point.
I am supposed to trust these guys with my password file.
It isn’t just the subscription…
I guess I will use the 1PW version I have until it breaks or I find a suitable alternative.
What about MacPass?
I have been looking at Codebook…
Rich
I’ve found zero other solutions that are (a) individual license and (b) provide the features that 1PW v7 does…DropBox sync, local backup and restore, secure notes as well as logins, attachments to entries, native app on all Apple platforms, and individual license.
I’m actually ok with the subscription licensing because although it’s more expensive than an individual license over a couple of years I would probably update the individual license to the new version and that would usually cost something so perhaps it’s a wash…I tend to prefer stand alone licensing but understanding the reasons for subs I can live with them if I have to.
So…you’ll either have to pay a subscription or live with a less capable solution…but if you do find another solution with stand alone licensing and 1PW equivalent features please post here so I can check it out. I’ve looked at LastPass, MYKI, SafeInCoud, iCloud Keychain, and Strongbox and none of them are adequate replacements for 1PW (I didn’t check out Strongbox completely so it might be and it does have individual licensing).
Thanks for your excellent analysis!
I agree - your point #4 is the unresolved sticking point.
You should not be trusting anyone, including yourself, with a readable password file. You should be trusting proper encryption with a good key to make sure your password file is not readable by anyone who may possibly obtain a copy.
Dave
I’ve been testing Enpass from the Mac App store. Free; no subscription.
Their web site indicates subscription – so a bit confusing.
I will be interested to know what you think of it.
Sells on their site as a one time buy.
Rich
True…but they don’t have your master password, just the encrypted blob…but that’s true if you use any password manager that features sync through any cloud service. All decryption is done locally on device. They claim that their service is better than say DropBox because it requires knowing both the master password and an additional Secret Key to get in…making it double encrypted…I don’t know if the Secret Key is known to them and thus hack LR or if it is used as part of the essentially double encryption…and they claim that the Secret Key is more secure than DropBox. That’s probably technically correct because the key is 32 long which is better than most DropBox passwords probably…but it is the length that makes it more secure and not some secret sauce that only 1PW has. I’m not as worried about them being hacked since even getting the encrypted blob is worthless without both the master password and the secret key as well as knowing how the encryption algorithm works…and then sheer length makes anything but brute force not work…and long password along with long DropBox password is pretty hard to crack. With the encrypted blob in the bad guys hands…again they’re technically correct in saying they’re more secure…because of the total length of the secret key and password…but if your password is 20something long and includes all 4 of the password food groups…then a million trillion centuries to crack it is plenty long enough. Yes…a trillion trillion trillion centuries is technically ‘better’ so they aren’t lying per se …but in this case as in many others better is the enemy of good enough…but they are intentionally misleading people that their system is better…although perhaps it is for morons who use letmein123 as their master password. Like you…I will stick with v7 as long as it works and then reevaluate.
Macpass.org as suggested is open source…but it is still less than 1.0 and being open source will be years before official release if history is any guide…and is less fully featured…I need secure notes and attachments which don’t appear to be supported as well as sync but then I didn’t look that closely at it yet.
If you are interested in the numbers of Dropbox subscriptions, you can research them yourself.
We have been using Password Wallet (PW) since 2007 and have been very pleased with it. The author updates it as needed to keep up with MacOS/iOS version changes. We bought versions for both Mac and iOS and have it on all our devices (no subscriptions required). The syncs between our Macs, iPhones and iPads work well on our local Wifi network. We don’t need cloud networking or the ability to attach files so this works fine for us. There’s no extension for browsers, it’s strictly a copy/paste process, but it does have buttons that automate this process (‘auto-typing’). All your data stays on your devices and there are no servers involved.
The iOS version is available on the Apple App Store as ‘PasswordWallet - All Inclusive’ with an on-line manual here. The iOS version includes a coupon for 25% off the Mac version that you buy at Selznick’s web site with an on-line manual here.