Reverting macOS System Software

TidBITS Talk
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I’ve been attempting to revert my iMac (Retina 4K, 21.5-inch, 2017) to macOS Ventura 13.7.2 after dutifully installing a system update to v. 13.73. Regrettably, 13.7.3 ‘broke’ one of the main apps I still use on the iMac.

While I’ve successfully installed version 13.7.2 on a USB HDD attached to the iMac, all my attempts at installing 13.7.2 on the iMac’s internal Fusion drive end up installing the current 13.7.3 version.

Thus, I’m seeking advice from the sage techies here on TidBITS

Background:

I’ve tried several ways, to wit:

  • Downloaded macOS 13.7.2 installers from both Mr. Macintosh & OSX Daily, ran installers from the USB drive AND from the ‘Erased’ internal drive, with the intent to restore my data from a CCC backup.
  • Used Migration Assistant to ‘restore’ using Time Machine, selecting a version indicating “13.7.2”

The results are always the same - 13.7.3 is installed on the internal drive

I’m keeping the iMac 2017, primarily as a local media server, and secondarily to run my main DAW (Reaper) along with some audio plugins that have yet to update to Sequoia. The ‘media server’ is hosted by iTunes 12.9.5 (al a Retroactive) as it streams my media to both AppleTV and my new Mac mini 2024. Since Apple’s Podcasts and Movies apps store related media ONLY on the computer’s internal hard drive, it doesn’t work for me since my current Podcasts and Movies collection exceeds 2.6 TB… yeah, so I’m a pack rat

Gratefully, running iTunes on the USB HDD works but it’s kinda slow…

Thanks in advance for any advice

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Just to comment on this, not that I’ve done it with the TV app, but I don’t think that this is right about the TV app. Like iTunes, the Settings includes a Files tab that lets you set a location to store media, and it doesn’t have to be on the internal drive.

Podcasts does not seem to have this setting, though.

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Media accessed by the TV and Music apps can be stored on external drives. The location of the files is set in Settings>Files of the appropriate app. The Photos app also lets you put the Photo library anywhere with the location defined in Settings>General of the photo app. Unfortunately, Podcasts and Books files are stuck in Apple-defined locations in the home directory on the boot drive.

A few years ago, I moved the media files and photo library to an external HDD. The media apps performed satisfactorily, but photo editing was frustratingly delayed, so I moved the photo library back to the boot drive. I’ve since replaced the HDDs with USB3 SDDs but left the photo library on the boot drive.

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You can create as many separate Photos libraries as you like, just hold down Option when launching the app and you’ll be given the option to create new libraries.

To switch between libraries, either option-launch the app and pick the one you want or double-click on the library in the Finder.

The only catch is that only one library can be associated with your iCloud account at a time. But you can select the one you want using the app’s Settings.

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Thanks for the feedback

I’ve only taken a cursory look into the Podcast app and was mainly relying on Kirk Mcelhearn’s “Take Control of Apple Media Apps” ebook for media storage location information wherein he advises only the Podcasts and Movies apps’ media must be stored in the internal HDD, all other media apps allow their media files to be, optionally, stored elsewhere.

  • One positive aspect of using Apple’s media apps is that searching with Spotlight returns results based on the media’s name

iTunes, despite its foibles, serves my needs better than any other app I’ve found so far. It’s truly a database allowing me to manage and find media files pertaining to the numerous topics of interest I follow. I meticulously curate my collection to include artists, album artists, release dates, and “PODCASTDESCRIPTION” metadata fields in particular - adding the metadata to the media files themselves. Using smart playlists, I can query the database to narrow down media according to my search terms.

In conjunction with that, I collect program notes and transcripts from content providers which are indexed by DEVONthink Pro 3. Sadly DEVONthink Pro 3 (nor any other database app I’ve tried so far) ‘reveals’ enough of the metadata to be a useful alternative to iTunes.

For other information junkies out there, the “Downie” app by Charlie Monroe Software is superb for downloading audio and video media files AND transcripts, where available, from a wide variety of sites

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Not sure how sage I am sometimes :-)…but perhaps something in the recovery partition is causing this? Have you tried installing from the USB stick and using disk utility first to completely erase everything on the target drive?

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Thanks Neil

Yes, that’s the way I’ve done it in the most recent iterations, although I’m using a USB HDD (vs. USB stick) attached to the iMac.

I came across some discussion there may be some related ‘information’ stored in the firmware, which could possibly be at play, but not likely in my case and IMHO

The mystery continues…

Might be something Apple’s doing… could it be they don’t want us to downgrade with their attention to security issues ??? The MacOS Installers clock in at 12-ish GB, but, watching Activity Monitor while running the Installer, another 5+ GB is downloaded during the process, suggesting the Installers are “phoning home” for something

A geeky relative suggested taking it into an Apple Store to see if they’d do the deed… something to consider

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One other thing to try if you have the space on the internal drive would be to partition it (by adding a new volume) and see if it installs correctly. I’ve noticed the behavior you mentioned as to further data download when I was trying to restore my M1 from Recovery a few months ago. If you don’t have an internet connection, it will not complete.

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Thanks jk2gs

My current plan is to create a bootable external drive (ordered - waiting on delivery…) and install Monterey on it, then install Monterey on the iMac’s internal HDD. Monterey will suffice for what few apps I’ll likely be using there.

p.s., I had a nice lengthy discussion about reverting Ventura to 13.7.2 with a knowledgeable Genius Bar rep at a local Apple Store who was unable to figure it out either…

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I hope that works for you. If you still need to install iTunes on one of the “newer” OS versions, this thread is of interest as you can copy the script provided and it will install without Retroactive but you do need to download the version of iTunes you want first:

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Thanks for the thought but my 2017 iMac is an Intel machine

I’ve had good success using Retroactive installing and running iTunes 12.9.5 on the iMac
… up until Ventura 13.7.3 ‘broke’ iTunes
12.9.5 allows access to the iTunes Store and plays just about anything I throw at it (*) AND can be AirPlayed to my AppleTV and my Mac mini 2024
( * ) not sure about 4K videos - I usually don’t bother with those since my TV is 720p, emulating 1080p, so I’m not sure there’d be much value added

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DOH! Just dawned on me you were perhaps suggesting a way to put iTunes on my ‘silicon’ Mac mini (Y/N?)

Gonna have to ponder that, and, besides, that’s the main reason I’m retaining my 2017 iMac - as a Media Server for my ‘rig’. It’s took a licking and keeps on ticking (I still maintain AppleCare for it to, at least, cover potential hardware issues)

Thanks again for your feedback

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Make sure to read further down as the script is not just related to Apple Silicon. The issue with 13.7.3 as well as 15.3 Sequoia is due to the code signing error. The script that bogdanw listed will fix the code signing error. I used it on 15.3 and all is well again on an M1 Air. Keep in mind that iTunes is running in Rosetta anyway being as old as it is.

I still use 10.7 CoverFlow so that does not work with the iTunes Store which I have no use for since I have thousands of my own albums. I do use an Airport Express for Airplay and that works fine.

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Reverting macOS Summary of Findings

First, thanks to all here who offered advice and information related to my quest to revert macOS. It was a combination of following lots of leads and lots of trial and error (blood, sweat, and tears) that led to a satisfactory solution

Attempting to ‘revert’ macOS 13.7.3 to 13.7.2 turned out to be quite an epic journey. Seems it’s ‘not allowed’. I was able to instal macOS 12.7.6 Monterey and iTunes 12.9.5 on my iMac (Retina 4K, 21.5-inch, 2017)

Following is a summary of my findings

Revert macOS 13.7.3 to 13.7.2 (or earlier)

It seems, when attempting to install an earlier-than-current version always results in the current version (e.g., 13.7.3 - now 13.7.4) being installed. It’s like it phone’s home to Apple and uses the current version

Installing a previous versions of macOS (e.g., Monterey) only worked when running the installer from a bootable drive with the desired macOS version installed. For example, attempting to run the Monterey installer while booted to a drive with a later macOS version ist verboten

Screenshot 2025-02-09 at 04.58.48
Screenshot 2025-02-09 at 04.58.48744×722 51.4 KB

  • the “For more information” link is MIA

One thing I found interesting…

I was wanting to install iTunes 12.9.5 - there’s not a standalone installer available (only previous versions). I discovered macOS Monterey was the only ‘place’ iTunes 12.9.5 was available. Retroactive installs 12.9.5 by extracting it from the Monterey Installer.

So I installed macOS Monterey on the iMac. The result was iTunes was NOT installed; it installed the current media apps (e.g., Podcasts, Music, etc.) instead. Retroactive to the rescue - it dutifully installed iTunes 12.9.5.

  • Before running Retroactive I copied backups I had of the contents of Music > iTunes into the new Music > iTunes directory. As a result, when I fired up iTunes, it was just as I left it (playlists, play counts, and all) and even ‘remembered’ the iTunes media library was located on my Synology NAS. We’re back home in Kansas, Toto

Presently, I only use the iMac to run iTunes as my ‘media server’ to my AppleTV and 2024 Mac mini M4. Earlier I thought Reaper (DAW) had yet to updated for Sequoia, and, thus, was using the iMac for that, too. Come to find out someone at reaper.fm neglected to update the ‘version compatibility’ notice on their website as, indeed, Reaper had been updated for Sequoia and is now running fine on my Mac mini.

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As I stated earlier, the issue with later versions of OS and iTunes is related to the code signing. After you found the 12.9.5 version, all you would have had to do is follow the directions in the thread provided.

Pacifist should be able to extract iTunes from the installer but Retroactive is easier to use as long as it continues to work.

EDIT: one other thing is that iTunes 12.9.5 is not in Monterey which is why it was not installed. Mojave was the last OS that contained that and it was in later versions like 10.14.6 although there is a Windows version which has the same 12.9.5 designation.

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Thanks jk2gs

Thanks for the Mojave vs Monterey w/ iTunes correction - that would explain it’s absence on installing Monterey

Re: “code signing… follow the directions in the thread provided” - I presume you’re referring bogdanw’s post on MacRumors

Both bogdanw’s AppleScript and Pacifist require an iTunes .dmg, Info.plist, etc. - essentially an iTunes installer in order to deal with the code signing issue

Unfortunately, as I mentioned in my “Summary” post, there is no installer for iTunes 12.9.5, as far as I can find. I was a little gun-shy to try using an earlier version of iTunes, for fear of munging my current library (e.g., losing playlists, play counts, ratings, etc). Unfounded, perhaps, but once I got a working setup with Monterey, I was too weary from the journey thus far to pursue other options. And since iTunes is, essentially the sole app I’m using on the 2017 iMac and since I don’t even use any apps to wander out into the innerwebs, I’m not too concerned about upgrading the macOS just to get security fixes.

I also keep AppleCare active for the 2017 iMac, in case it needs hardware CPR to extend its lifespan IF and until I can find a suitable replacement for iTunes.

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I understand your hesitation regarding a different version as things have changed over time with iTunes. I explained my situation in this post some time ago:

I applied the codesign command to an iTunes copy from a backup and it worked for that but not for the Retroactive installed one as it works differently from what I’ve read. So if you have a backup of the one that worked, the codesign command I mentioned in that post should work. I know you want 12.9.5 but if you have a working copy, you should be able to use it similar to what I did for version 10.7 which is the one I like.