For this issue, maybe the user could use their iPhone and capture the image using Apple’s new Live Text camera feature. No doubt there are other utilities out there already that do similar. But yeah, column text can sure be a pain in PDF.
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I recently learned about how to set the order of elements on a page in Acrobat Pro to make documents accessible for students. I think that’s what you’re referring to. I doubt this problem is related to that because I’m using a PDF of a textbook, and publishers are required to make these documents accessible. Also, older versions of Preview worked correctly with this file.
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It has been a long while since I worked with PDFs programmatically, but at the time, most were a mess internally. Before throwing stones at various viewers, a nod and some sympathy towards ‘garbage in - garbage out’ might inform your perspective. Just as there are many apps that purport to view PDFs, there are many more that create them, with equally varying results.
One viewer I think that’s not been mentioned so far is the generically named PDF Viewer, built on PSPDFKIT, used by many apps.
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Apple’s PDFKit has essentially been out of date (broken) for many years. Forms filled out by Preview are unreadable or corrupted when opened elsewhere or in Acrobat. The problem is magnified in environments where you do not have a standard OS image (ie. Universities where students pass documents to instructors.) It is a total mess.
That being said, my PDF viewer/notator of choice on macOS is Skim. It is free, open source, fast, lightweight and has many customizable features. Skim started in the scientific/education/research area but is very useful for daily PDF wrangling. Unfortunately, it is dependent on PDFKit, so do not use it for editing and sharing important forms (that should always be done in Acrobat Reader or Pro).
Skim is a PDF reader and note-taker for OS X. It is designed to help you read and annotate scientific papers in PDF, but is also great for viewing any PDF file.
The current version 1.6.x is native on Apple Silicon and supports back to OSX 10.10 Yosemite. Older versions support Mac systems back to OSX 10.4 Tiger (see the “System Requirements” section on the sourceforge wiki below).
https://sourceforge.net/p/skim-app/wiki/Main_Page/
Here is a quick example of the Note/Highlight tools I created by right-clicking on words:
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My first post here - hello! Thought I’d mention that if you hold down the option key while selecting text in Preview you can control the text being selected. It creates a rectangular selection box as you drag and only text in that box will be selected.
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I have to admit my first interaction with support re. PDFpenPro since their acquisition from Nitro was less than satisfactory. I was attempting to edit a form originally created in Acrobat Pro by adding a new form field and found myself unable to edit the field’s border (or for that matter, any of the previously created form fields’ borders). I’ve tried 3 times now to submit a ticket on their support page; each time you submit the form you are directed to a page with 3 button options - User Guide, Knowledge Base, and Community Forum.
In other words, there is apparently no active support by Nitro staff for a particular issue. I find this worrisome re. the future of this application. Anyone have a better experience?
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Yes, that’s the link in my previous post, and completing the form (which does NOT include a field for describing the question/issue) does NOT generate an automated response or ticket number - it simply takes you to a page with the 3 options illustrated above.
Thanks for this VERY helpful comment re selection rectangle!
And welcome, you will get nothing but civility and helpfulness here. 
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If you select one of the options, does it get you further along or are you stuck in faqs with no way to contact them?
Diane
Alas, more or less “stuck in faqs” - User Guide option takes you to software user guide, Knowledge Base to faqs, Community Forum to the community forum. No ticket assignment, no contact from any support team member.
I’ve always respected Smile. With your post, that means I won’t consider PDFpenpro in the future unless they improve.
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Smile sold it. They are no longer developing it.
Exactly. It’s no longer Smile, hence my response.
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I recently experienced the issue of form filled out in Preview simply did not stay filled when shared. Super broken and really problematic as it was a form I REALLY needed to have filled out properly and usable by recipient.
So, my “net net” here is that there really isn’t any reliable PDF software for the Mac other than Adobe? Seems super crazy but god knows possible. I wonder…
- Why Smile sold PDFPen;
- Who Nitro are and why they bought it;
- Why don’t they support a product they just bought?
Exactly. Wow.
Despite the PDFKit problems, I still find Skim to be my best friend in regards to PDF documents unless I am working with shared forms.
This very topic of PDF software was discussed extensively on the MacInTouch forums, but sadly that info is now lost (or at least, unavailable).
I would ask the question why Apple has refused to update their PDFKit engine to a more current standard and/or correct the shared PDF form issues that have plagued users for over a decade. But all you have to do is look at how Apple responds–or rather, does not respond–to a growing list of issues and bugs spanning years. Then look at where Apple’s priorities are and it becomes clear.
Forced/leveraged hardware upgrades and App Store fees.
Very unfortunate from the company that used to stand for choice, inclusion and support of standards.
(sorry, was that off topic?)
[EDIT: added Skim link]
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This is a very good question. I’m assuming they might not have acquired anyone from Smile’s Help team. But they have had enough time to build a Help team for their new acquisition. If they haven’t, they need to do so.
Did the MacInTouch forums die a premature death? No, it wasn’t off topic and I fundamentally agree but not making PDF forms workable is insane; I did not realize the problem was of such longstanding.
I JUST shared an edited-in-Preview form for a very necessary purpose – I’m waiting for the other form to drop tomorrow morning! Will report back.
This particular form seemed to work on the receiving end, happily. This particular one was a scan and I interacted/edited with the Markup Toolbar, text boxes, saved signatures.
PSA: The form(s) that I had REAL trouble with were more ‘formal’ (!), as in long, detailed, tab between fields and almost certainly created with Acrobat Pro. I filled out, saved, shared and NONE of the edits stuck and/or the form would not stay “flattened” and could be edited by the recipient which, for a legal document, was particularly unacceptable. Be careful if you need to share anything you edit in Preview of this nature if it is important: double check with the recipient.
The heavy form problems you describe sound like classic PDFKit issues. That being said, the “flattenting” of layers you mentioned is something that happens with Acrobat itself.
I described an anomaly in the MacInTouch forums about an Acrobat redaction issue back in 2020. Here is the summary from my notes:
Acrobat Pro DC 2020.009.20074 (macOS 10.13.6)
- open PDF bill downloaded directly from Medical web site
- blue info box at top of document:
“This file claims compliance with the PDF/A standard and has been opened read-only to prevent modification.” - click Enable Editing
- make any Redaction (either highlight and choose Redact, or click Redact tool icon and then highlight or create box around area to obscure.)
- on Apply Redaction, any added info on page 1 (“monthly statement”, page number, your info, acct summary, messages, amt. due, address) is whited out regardless of Sanitize choice.
- if opened in Preview first, and re-saved (ie. delete last page), then opened in Acrobat Pro DC and repeat same steps above, Redaction works and nothing else is removed.
Behavior demonstrates “layers” in PDF bill (ie. template with graphics is separate from patient text data) that are “flattened” into a single layer after save in Preview app. Why Acrobat Pro cannot isolate selected areas only is unknown.
…
Sadly, yes. I believe operating costs and maintenance time were just some of the reasons. I am sad we lost all the useful discussions and tech info. Ric is still keeping the main Mac blog/news updates going for now.
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