MS-DOS reminiscences

Yes, but the PCjr was not what I was referring to. The original PC that shipped in 1981 was not developed using IBM’s usual bureaucracy-heavy development cycle. They needed something to compete with Apple, Tandy and the other companies making small computers that were popular with small businesses. They knew that if they waited five years to ship, they would have lost the market.

Because of this, it was designed around as much off-the-shelf hardware as possible, with the intention of doing a proper redesign later on. But it became too popular for any incompatible redesign to be practical. The result is that the industry standardized on a stopgap architecture that nobody had the courage to deviate from (until Apple shipped Macintosh).

  • They chose the Intel 8088 because it was available in quantity and was fairly inexpensive.

    Ironically, this chip was a stopgap solution for Intel. The 8086 (on which it was based) was intended as a chip to keep sales up while the iAPX 432 architecture could be developed and shipped. Ironically, the iAPX 432 was a commercial failure and (thanks to the IBM PC) the 8088 and its successors became the company’s biggest source of profit.

  • The first PC’s motherboard was developed incredibly quickly. Designed in only 40 days, with a working prototype in 4 months, borrowing many design features from other pre-existing IBM products.

  • Most of the internal peripherals (power supply, floppy drives, chips on the I/O cards, etc.) were all third-party products that the IBM engineers integrated.

  • The ROM BASIC was commissioned from Microsoft.

  • The companion monitor was a pre-existing design.

  • The companion printer was made by Epson.

  • The system software (PC-DOS) was commissioned from Microsoft (as their second-choice, because the person responsible for selling their first-choice option, CP/M, wasn’t immediately available).

Because of all this, they shipped the first unit after only one year of development. A schedule completely unheard of for IBM. And it sold so well, that they decided to continue evolving it as a platform instead of replacing it with “the real thing” a few years later, as originally expected.

See also:

By the time the PCjr came along, the PC architecture and MS-DOS were quite solidly entrenched. And the jr (as you point out) was designed via the IBM bureaucracy, and it was a colossal failure in every sense of the word. But ultimately, it didn’t matter because the home users were buying full-size PCs (and later PC clones) anyway.

I used the MKS Toolkit at one employer. A nice suite of software, but I never considered buying it for myself, since DOS ports of quite a lot of GNU software were available for free download from the big shareware FTP sites at the time.

On my DOS systems, I had (still have - on the one DOS PC I still have running):

  • Core Utilities (originally distributed as three packages: file, text and shell utilities). Not all were ported to DOS, but quite a lot of them were.
  • Grep
  • Awk
  • Emacs (originally third-party apps that behaved similar to GNU-Emacs, but later on, the real thing was ported to DOS)
  • Gcc (there were several different projects that ported gcc to DOS). The code produced at the time wasn’t as good as what Microsoft C produced, but MS-C was quite expensive and gcc was a free download. And gcc was more compatible with the language standard than Turbo C was.

The original PCjr keyboard had chicklet keys and an infrared wirelss interface. It was pretty bad - uncomfortable to type on an unreliable, especially when the batteries ran low.

You could buy an optional cable, which made it more reliable, but still had a lousy feel.

IBM later replaced the keyboard with a better version. Still rubber-dome switches, but with normal-shaped key caps. Which was an improvement, but still bad compared with the keyboards they were shipping with the PC, PC/XT and PC/AT.

See also IBM PCjr STRIPPED BARE: We tear down the machine Big Blue would rather you forgot • The Register

FWIW, I never owned an actual IBM PC. My first PC-compatible system was a complete no-name clone made from generic parts, which I assembled as a part of receiving it from my college. (They chose to have each student build the PC in a classroom environment instead of distributing fully-built systems.)

Over the years, I upgraded that computer piecemeal, swapping out whatever I thought needed upgrading. Which was good, because the school wanted it back after graduation. But by that point, I had literally upgraded everything, so I could give them back what they gave me.

I still have the final incarnation of that PC. A 120 MHz 486, 4MB RAM, SCSI hard drive, optical drive, SoundBlaster, SVGA video. All in a very large tower case. I don’t power it on that often these days, but it still works and there are some games I like which don’t exist on any other platform.

I didn’t get my first Mac until the late 90’s, when I bought a surplus SE because I wanted a Mac to play with. Later got various used models, including a IIci and a Quadra 840av. Then I could afford to buy new models: A 2002 PowerMac G4, a 2011 mini and today a 2018 mini.

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This is turning out to be a really big trip down memory lane for me. I just remembered another IBM division I worked on in ad sales around the same time was their mega OS/2 ad campaign. IIRC, it was a joint development with MS. But not long down the road IBM got really POed when Microsoft started replacing DOS with Windows in new PCs made by other manufacturers without warning and was totally ignoring OS/2.

Not long after, IBM sold its personal computer hardware division to Lenovo. And Lenovo has been doing great with it for decades.

Yep. I was an OS/2 developer since 1991. It had all kinds of features that Microsoft wouldn’t put in Windows until NT version 4 (1996) and some features not until Windows XP (2003).

OS/2 was a joint project between IBM and Microsoft but during the development of 32-bit OS/2 (aka “OS/2 NT”, about 1990), Microsoft decided that they wanted the future to be based on Windows (which was version 3.0), and decided to cancel it.

This angered the developer community, because they didn’t give any warning and didn’t even agree to refund the $800 spent for each copy of the pre-release development kit. IBM gained a lot of goodwill by offering the Microsoft OS/2 developers free copies of the IBM OS/2 development kits.

IBM gained even more goodwill when they offered all OS/2 users free upgrades to version 2.0 when it was released. I got my first personal copy by buying a closeout copy of OS/2 1.0 and sending IBM its proof-of-license certificate.

Sadly, IBM could not (and, IMO, still can’t) market its way out of a paper bag. Despite having a product that was technically superior in every way, Microsoft manage to convince the world (through bundling and ad campaigns) that Windows 3.0 (and then 95) was somehow better, catapulting them into dominating the market, while IBM’s sales faded away. By the time they dropped support in the late 90’s, most users no longer cared. Enthusiasts and developers (myself included) were (and in many ways, still are) quite upset with the decision.

Although I’ve been meaning to get around to it for decades now, I would still like to set up an OS/2 system at home to play with. I don’t think my OS/2 4.0 install media would work on a modern PC, but a third party (Arca Noae) is selling and supporting it with current apps and device drivers. Maybe I’ll get around to it some day. :slight_smile:

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Though they never acknowledged this in so many words, after these disasters they bought Red Hat and became very successful, and very early, pioneers in cloud services for companies of all shapes and sizes. And they have been very actively courting businesses that are Apple users.

https://cloud.ibm.com/developer/appledevelopment/dashboard

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In other words, they went back to their old habits of business-to-business services. They could sell mainframes to mega-corporations, and now they’re doing the same thing with cloud services.

But could they sell a small-business device (like desktop/laptop PCs) or software for such an audience? I don’t think so. I don’t think they have a clue how to sell to these markets. Which is why they pretty much abandoned that marketplace, divesting the PC business (to Lenovo), dropping small system software (OS/2) and divesting the peripheral business to Lexmark.

Today, if you’re not running a data center, you probably have no need for any of IBM’s products.

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Here is a quote from a webpage that I created having a dig at Windows circa 1996:
http://www.vdrsyd.com/aoaug/ms_dig.html

“The problem in the PC industry is that there is no real pressure to develop better, more efficient systems - they just get bigger with “add ons”. The market “influence” seems to be that the CEO’s secretary uses a particular word processor and it happens to be part of a suite of programs so everyone in the organisation has to use the same package - brilliant marketing but the people who actually have to use the package for “computing” don’t get any say in the features of the product. Someone’s done a course in “How you peddle excreta” (HYPE).”

BTW - In another post I report on successfully running ancient DOS software Open Access using Crossover and Ventura.

I also tried installing a Win95 app called Ami Pro (the first, and IMO still the best, Windows word processor). I managed to find a copy of the installation disks that I had saved on CD but, unfortunately, there was a corrupt file and the installation stopped.
In theory Crossover should be able to run OS2 IF you have the installation disks.

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They are, and always been fast learners. In the current Fortune 500 ranking IBM is #35. Among information technology companies IBM is #5. The market for desktop and laptop hardware is generally not highly profitable, except for Apple. This is probably why IBM turned its back on hardware long ago.

Apple is #1 in the overall and IT 500s.

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How? Crossover isn’t a VM. It has special versions of the Windows system DLLs (via the WINE project) for running Windows apps on other platforms.

But OS/2 isn’t a Windows software package. It is a completely different operating system. As far as I know, there is no “OINE” project to allow OS/2 apps to run on other platforms without a running OS/2 system.

That having been said, I’ve read about 32-bit OS/2 running on Macs via VM systems (Parallels, VMWare Fusion, VirtualBox). But it’s not (as far as I know) supported by any of them.

As far as I know, there doesn’t exist any VM system capable of running 16-bit OS/2 (version 1.x), because that uses the segmented virtual memory model of the 80286 processor, and no VMs or emulators (that I know of) support this memory model, mostly due to lack of interest.

These days, if I decide to install an OS/2 system, I’ll probably buy/build an inexpensive compact PC (maybe some model of Intel NUC) that I can stick on the back of my desk and access via a KVM.

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:+1:

Next task is to try and boot up my 1981 Sinclair Spectrum computer - if I can work out how to make the video work (uses the very old analogue TV input).

Seasons greetings to the Talk participants. I enjoy the discussions and advice.

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I adored OS/2, which was from the future, and unlike NT, it actually ran useful software that you actually used … that was available for DOS or Win3X. Also, just to keep a slight Apple spin on things, the screen reader for it, Screen Reader/2, was, pretty much uniquely in the industry, also developed by IBM, just as VoiceOver is now developed (poorly) by Apple (see? Spin.). Unfortunately Warp 4 was the last version supported by SR/2, and beyond a certain patchlevel it breaks, so I can’t use any modern OS/2 or even CP2; also unfortunate, they provided this very nice buckling-spring keypad for Screen Reader/2 navigation commands that only connected via PS/2, and at some point I could no longer use the one I had. And in truth, by the time Warp 4 came out, SR/2 had already ceased to be productive on laptops, or to support most of the new features of Warp4, like the WarpGuide or the WarpCenter control strip, in effect rendering it little more than a slightly more pleasant to install version of Warp 3. But, OMG, what a delight! A real 32-bit protected-mode OS that did native 8086 emulation of other OSs and was truly object-oriented, with a much more modern filesystem and networking, rexx scripting and multimedia, amazing help books and many useful personal productivity features in the box. There will never be anything like it again, at least not for Intel processors.

I … think it’s true that IBM did marketing poorly, but I also think we have to be brutally honest that Win95 was a genuine nail in the coffin. It may have been technically inferior, but it ran on the shabby hardware that people had (up to and including interoperating with 16-bit real-mode DOS drivers), and gave an effectively chisel-free computing environment to the great unwashed™. And, of course, there was the famous Synchronous Interrupt Queue, which even Warp 4 never really remedied. There’s a certain delightful desperation in the defence of OS/2, which even before Windows 95 launched, was obviously at a competitive disadvantage. By the time Windows 2000 came out and we had a functioning Windows NT that included a virtual DOS machine and was (relatively) easy to install on most hardware, the game was well and truly up.

But I still miss OS/2, very much. It is a great shame that we never saw a world with a thriving OS/2 in it once Windows gained hegemonic dominance. IBM endorsed Linux to enterprises, and anyway their management had a death wish on the PSS group. It’s all very sad.

See also:
https://www.os2museum.com/

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Sinclair still has an active antique fan base, including for their Timex/Sinclair computer:

https://www.timexsinclair.com/

And Timex also pasted “Sinclair” on the face of what they promoted as a smart watch. The problem was that it was way too dumb and too expensive:

https://www.zazzle.com/very_cool_timex_sinclair_1000_computer_wrist_watch-256528480187539896

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David,
One thing I thought about recently. Did the Apple II (older than DOS 1.0), and it’s later models and the others you mentioned, have the Y2K problem? If not, shows the difference in forethought of Jobs over Gates.

Apple DOS 3.3 and earlier had no timekeeping support at all. No clock in the OS and no timestamps on files. So any date-keeping support would have been part of apps, not the OS.

Apple’s ProDOS (and its predecessor, SOS (for the Apple III) and its successor, GS-OS), all used the following format for timestamps:

  • Date (2 bytes)
    • Day: 5 bits (can represent 0…31)
    • Month: 4 bits (can represent 0…15)
    • Year: 7 bits (can represent 0…128)
  • Time (2 bytes)
    • Minute: 6 bits (can represent 0…63)
    • Hour: 5 bits (can represent 0…31)

So ProDOS timestamps are limited to 127 years beyond its epoch (1900 - so it wraps at 2027), and they don’t store seconds.

Community-updated versions of ProDOS changed the date representation to 10 bits, providing a 1023 year range (so it will wrap at 2924).

But the Apple IIGS’s internal hardware clock will wrap in 2040.

So, no “Y2K” problems, but plenty of other timekeeping problems that we simply haven’t hit yet (but will soon, for those continuing to use ProDOS/GS-OS).

See also:

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Interesting. In grad school we had several optical measurement pieces of equipment that were either home built or modified to be run or at least data taken, with computers from SouthWest Technical Products, based on 6800 and later 6809 They used the Flex operating system, and at least that dos kept a date on files. When booting you entered a date, no time. So I don’t think it updated the date IF it didn’t crash before midnight. But at least your files were dated. I couldn’t tell from what you said if a date was on files on Apple DOS 3.3 and earlier.

Nope. Prior to ProDOS, there was no date or timestamp on filenames. Which makes perfect sense because there was no way to enter a time or date into the OS. It was a very very simple file system, only tracking the disk blocks used, a 1-byte file type, the filename (up to 30 characters, spaces allowed) and the length (as a count of blocks).

Any other data (including the actual file length, if end-of-data isn’t supposed to be the end of the last block) is the responsibility of the app.

See also: Apple DOS file system - Just Solve the File Format Problem

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This is exactly why I thought OS 9, which had a fuller UNIX subset, was so much better than MS-DOS 1.0 and that the IBM PC took the microcomputer world back 5 or more years. And why I have avoided Microsoft/Windows/Gates from Day 1.

IBM though and though. Their first main frame they knew was crap compared to others on the market, but they leverage their huge sales force and business connections with other office/business connections to sell it.

Another thing I’ve hated over the years was Microsoft going off the standard, then because of their soon ill gotten clout could force others to follow along. Glad Active X was squashed on the internet. The Internet was supposed to be a standard that EVERYBODY followed. Why web developers used stuff none other than Windows world could visit beats me.

Hmmm, this is interesting that Epson was a good size player back then. I just got an Epson 8550 printer. It’s 13" wide, and uses dye inks not pigment inks so you only have flat black (why I am not sure, text maybe), photo black, grey, magenta, cyan, yellow (no light magenta nor light cyan). And they are tanks, not cartridges, easily refillable. It also does double sided, print directly on CDs/DVDs/BR disks (what ever those are), and will print on media 1.3 mm thick. First photo printed very impressive. It also comes with a scanner on top. It replaces an Epson Stylus Photo 2200 as no one is making cartridges for it (I can only find light cyan that have expired dates on them). My only gripe is the scanner does not have a ADP like the little 8.5" wide brother has. I was in Staples today and some small relatively cheap scanners also do double sided. This printer also comes with drivers for iOS to print to it over WiFi, OCR software and some more I forget right now (I think cuz its not applicable to me).

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In 1978, Epson released its first dot-matrix printer for the Commodore PET. In 1980, they released the MX-80, which nearly every small computer owner (including Apple II, Atari, Commodore, and many more) used at the time. Low resolution and very loud, but a workhorse. They were considered the dominant player for small printers until ink-jet technology replaced dot-matrix.

FWIW, my first printer was an Apple Scribe (color thermal-transfer tech) connected to a //c. It worked great and looked great, but the thermal-transfer ribbons were very expensive. Later on, I got an Epson LQ-500 (24-pin near-letter-quality dot matrix) which I used for decades until the gears finally stripped.

Business users used daisy-wheel printers at the time for anything that needed to look good. The dominant players in this market were Diablo and Qume.

In grad school, '78 - '83 we had a ‘Paper Tiger’, I think advertised to be FAST. But it continued to break the pins off the arms. We were taking apart the head and soldering the pins back on, we got pretty good at that. When I graduated I got a daisy wheel printer, don’t remember the brand, but it emulated the Diablo, to go with that SWTP computer (no graphics at all). I didn’t move to the Mac (II si) til a decently inexpensive laser printer came around. I first got a Texas Instruments one, but it lacked a few things (one being the apple character, option k, as Apple wouldn’t let others use it), fought like h e double toothpick to get them to take it back, they finally did. By that time Apple reduced the price on the Personal LaserWriter (~$200), and the rest is history.

When the Mac II si arrived, I set it up. I had to go to work but the wife unit played with it. Unfortunately the siblings decided on Prodigy for communications (e-mail?), not Compuserve or AOL, Prodigy was HORRIBLE to write in, it had like a 60 char wide screen, maybe 15 lines, and text would not flow from page to page, 6 page max. When we looked up other local users, I think I found like 30 different spellings for Albuquerque listed, and those folks lived in Albuquerque. But when I got home, my 3 - 4 yo son met me at the door exclaiming, “Daddy guess what, we got cable computer!”. I also recorded him saying “NO, not that” as the warning of an error. Pretty sure my Mac II si still says that.