Looking at buying a Mac mini again

TidBITS Talk
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Barely two years ago I posted about getting a 2014 Mac Mini for some newer software (thank you TurboTax). It’s got 16gb with an i7 processor. In that time I’ve moved most of my client work over to it and now boot from an external SSD. I am running it headless from my (also old) laptop. It’s running Monterey which is as far as it can go which means I can’t use TT next year. Since my laptop is the main machine at this time, I’ve got two monitors hooked up to that (one being a ~2010 27" Cinema Display)

So I guess I am back to looking at Mini’s again. Or a new tax program which I’m not sure I have the patience to do. (self employed so it’s not that straight-forward)

I have priced out a 2018 i7, 16/500 <$500, which was discontinued in 2023 - how long do we think OS updates will be available for that? Because that’s apparently Intuit’s justification for updates.

I could also get an M1 or M2 Mini but could not afford to go over 8gb.

I know I can upgrade the RAM in a 2018 but I don’t think the M1/M2s are user upgradeable?

I should be able to plug in an external SSD to the M1/M2 for more storage?

Software I am using directly on the 2014 Mini:
ARC (which is also limited by OS)
Digital Photo Professional (Canon) should be upgradeable
DXO PureRAW 3 (hopefully upgradeable, it does run on Silicon)
Apple Mail
Microsoft Remote Desktop (also on the laptop, depends on where I need my screens)
MS Office 16, which I bought not that long ago and I don’t think they are easy to move anymore
TurboTax which will continually raise the bar

The smart thing for future-proofing would be to get the M1/M2 but I don’t know if 8gb will hinder me at all. I do all my raw photo processing on the Mini, yes it takes a bit but I just let it work while I do other things.

One more thing - I bought a refurbished Windows laptop 8 years ago, it has needed to be reformatted probably 4 times since, because it randomly refuses to boot with disk errors. I should really get Parallels running for Windows on a newer Mac and ditch the laptop. OWC offers a great deal on it with a new machine but I think it’s for a subscription? Is there a virtual option that is an outright purchase (VirtualBox sadly makes me pull my hair out). I use it for one client right now.

Thanks
Diane

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I have been using M1 MacMini with 8 GB without problems. I have 4 external SSD plugged in via USB Hub for backups and time machine. I do any photo processing other than with Preview so I don’t know if 8 GB RAM would be sufficient for raw photo processing. Main application used on it are Mail, Safari, Firefox, Nisus Writer Pro, Libreoffice, PDF Expert, Alfred 5, Carbon Copy Cloner, Backblaze, NordVPN, Little Snitch.

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It’s hard to guess how long Apple will support any particular machine with software updates. A lot of people think next week’s Sequoia will be the 2018 mini’s last officially supported macOS, while others think it will be supported by whatever Apple releases next fall. Personally, I wouldn’t even have a guess on whether the 2025 OS release will support the 2018 mini, but I would be very surprised if Apple’s 2026 OS will support that machine. I guess you would be fairly safe assuming at least two years of TurboTax support for that machine, though.

If TurboTax is what is driving your need to upgrade, and your budget is tight, I would seriously consider buying a basic (but new) Windows 11 machine just for TT. If you use Parallels, a Windows 11 virtual machine should run ok on a 2018 mini, but it won’t be speedy. Looking at Dell’s USA website today, the base model of Inspiron 3030 Small Desktop comes with an i3 CPU, 8 GB RAM, and a 512 GB SSD for $469.99 with optional extended warranties for not much more. The RAM and the drive are both upgraded easily at any time. Although it is only an i3 CPU, it is a significantly faster CPU than any of the older CPU options available in the 2018 mini, including the i7 option. I can’t guarantee it, but I’d expect the system to be supported by Windows 11 for at least three or four more years.

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When Steve Jobs returned to Apple in 1997, Michael Dell famously trashed the company with a killer quote. When asked what he’d do with Apple if he were in Jobs’ shoes, Dell said: What would I do? **I’d shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders.**Feb 5, 2013

Don’t buy Dell. Plenty of other good alternatives,

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Minimum system requirements for TT Windows is has also increased by one every year since at least 2020.

I considered switching to TT Win for my current Windows laptop but not sure how far I could upgrade it - and upgrading it too far will make QB problematic, which I need for the client.

I am not buying a second Windows machine. I already hate that I own one.

Diane

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Your current Mac mini will run later macOS versions under Open Core Legacy Patcher (OCLP). When I upgraded from my old 16GB I7 Mac mini (2012 model) to an M1 MBP, I kept the old machine and eventually put OCLP onto it. OCLP is a free download at

It runs fine. I had replaced its internal HDD with an SSD a long time ago.
I brought it up to Sonoma under OCLP and it is at 14.6.1 now. I don’t use it for much, because of reasons.
It should run TurboTax just fine.

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Oh! Someone mentioned that in my last thread and I thought it was for running legacy software on a new machine.

Is it like a virtual machine, where I’d boot the Mini normally and then run the newer on top of that? I just watched a video and he didn’t make that clear so I’ll poke around for others.

Thanks!
Diane

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No, it patches the firmware prior to boot to provide missing drivers and get around the restrictions that Apple puts in on booting unsupported versions.

I have it running Ventura on a 2014 Mac mini and Sonoma on a 2015 MacBook Air and they both work fine. The mini I will either replace or upgrade to a newer MacOS version when Ventura is sunsetted and I’ll probably keep the MBA on the latest MacOS release for as long as I need to (though I won’t even try installing Sequoia until at late October at earliest.) Neither machine is heavily used, though.

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I run OCLP with Ventura on a 2015 Mac Book Pro, using it quite a lot. My wife had Ventura via OCLP on a 2014 MacBook Pro last year. She had no problems with. Now she has a newer MacBook Pro that she got from our daughter, since she got a new one at work.

I like to stay one OS behind on OpenCore, to let other people find the bugs. My plan is to upgrade to Sonoma this fall. I see many people already have Sequoia beta running.

One thing you should know is that you reduce the security of the OS by running it. It is not a big problem if you have good surfing habits, but just be beware.

If you want to try it out I recommend making a new Volume for the OCLP+New OS and do an installation from scratch in case you run into any problems.

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I’d be curious to hear more about the details. Is the security penalty from using OCLP related to the fact that you’re running macOS versions for which Apple no longer releases security updates or is due to OCLP interfering with (or disabling?) System Integrity Protection and/or Secure Boot?

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One of the reasons (there are many) that I switched from TurboTax to H&R Block Tax software is the latter consistently supports older versions of macOS compared to TT. I filed my 2023 taxes using H&R Block using macOS 10.15 (Catalina). I expect that the requirements will be bumped up to macOS 11 (Big Sur) for the next tax year.

My experience with changing from TT to H&R was good. I had to reenter some information that did not transfer but most of it did transfer.

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I understand your need to stay within a budget, but I’d think twice about buying an Intel Mac today.

That having been said, I’ve written about this in the past. It’s impossible to know for sure what Apple will do, but historically, Apple has dropped macOS support for a CPU architecture about two years after the last computer with that processor was discontinued. At least that’s what happened with the 68K->PPC and PPC->Intel transitions.

The last Intel Mac made was the 2019 Mac Pro, discontinued in June 2023. Second-to-last was the 2018 Mini, discontinued in January 2023.

We know that macOS 16 (shipping soon) has Intel support. But I predict that 17 (expected in fall 2025, more than 2 years after the last Intel Mac shipped) will not be bootable on Intel Macs.

Apple usually provides support and updates (at least for security patches) for two years after release. So that Intel Mac that I predict will top-out with macOS 16, should get system updates until about fall 2026.

Third-party apps will probably begin dropping support some time in 2026, with some holding out longer than others. Open source apps, like Firefox, seem to hold out the longest. I’ll let others make guesses about TurboTax.

FWIW, I use TurboTax online, which only requires a modern web browser, which will likely be available for a lot longer than supported macOS releases. The only downside is that you are sending all your information to Intuit’s servers (I don’t know if a local installation also forces you to do that or not).

Yeah, that’s a problem. If you can’t afford more RAM, then you have to figure out how much you really need, because no Apple Silicon Macs have upgradable RAM.

Many people have reported the Apple Silicon is more efficient than Intel systems, so 8GB might be adequate for running apps that needed 16 GB on an Intel Mac, but I remain skeptical. I think some of that observation is because the SSD is much faster, so swapping doesn’t impact performance as much, but I still think swapping is a bad thing (especially for SSD longevity), even if it’s not a big performance hit.

Yes. You can plug in an SSD or hard drive via either USB or Thunderbolt. You may have to jump through some hoops if you want the external device to be bootable, but if you just need it for document/data storage, there’s no problem.

As I’m sure you’re aware, SSDs are much faster than HDDs, but cost more. And Thunderbolt is faster than USB, but usually costs more. What is best for you will depend on your budget and what you plan on using it for. But that’s best discussed in another thread.

Don’t make product recommendations based on off-the-cuff statements of executives. Not from Dell, not from Apple, nor from anyone else.

Dell makes a lot of different models, ranging from absolute trash up to top-end servers and workstations. I wouldn’t recommend the models they sell on store shelves in mass-market stores like Best Buy, but if you go to their web site and know what you need, you can get a very good system for a good price.

Ditto for HP, which is Dell’s biggest competitor.

If you want a powerful PC, consider getting a gaming system. They usually come equipped with fast processors, a powerful GPU, lots of RAM and storage. But if you’re going to use it for work, you may want to make sure you can turn off the RGB lighting effects. :slight_smile:

But do your homework there as well. There are companies making “gaming” PCs that are selling overpriced junk. As with all things in the PC world, you really need to know what you’re buying, because marketing literature is not going to give you the truth.

If it was just a matter of a new OS version for the same hardware architecture I’d say yes.

But no patcher is going to be able to create Intel software from an ARM-only distribution.

That works because the OS releases you’re patching are all built for Intel processors. It won’t work once Apple goes ARM-only. Which I predict will happen in macOS 17.

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You still get the security updates, since you run a supported Os. It is the Sealed System and SIP that is changed and makes for a less secure system. You also have to trust the developers of OCLP.

The System is unsealed, however the System volume is still mounted read-only after the OCLP modifications.

This is the status of System Integrity Protection on my mac:

Apple Internal: disabled
Kext Signing: disabled
Filesystem Protections: disabled
Debugging Restrictions: enabled
DTrace Restrictions: enabled
NVRAM Protections: enabled
BaseSystem Verification: enabled

A little reminder of what SIP does:

  1. Restricting access to critical system locations
  2. Preventing unauthorized modifications to system files and folders
  3. Limiting the powers of the root user account
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I think you are right in this, but if she is only in need of a newer OS to run Turbo Tax OCLP might be the best solution for some years to come.

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The other thin to beware of with OCLP is that you have to be very careful when applying macOS updates. Changes to macOS (even in point releases) have broken OCLP, and you have to wait for the developers to catch up.

OCLP, as easy as the developers make it sound, may not be the best choice if you’re not a technically savvy user.

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I’m going to suggest another angle: given the OP wants to minimize expenditures on hardware and is self-employed, it may be a better use of funds to hire a professional tax preparer who is an Enrolled Agent with the IRS. The cost of a new Mac and software plus the value of the OP’s time could very well be a higher dollar amount than paying somebody else to handle tax preparation and filing. Plus if the IRS questions something on a return or decides to conduct an audit, Enrolled Agents can act as your representative with the IRS.

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I considered that (briefly) but around here my return would be over $500 (and I do two returns, neither are simple 1040s). I work with some CPAs and could ask them for help if I ever needed it.

Diane

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There’s very strong rumors of a new Mini being introduced in the next month or so, so I’d wait just a bit before making a final decision.

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I’m still running a 2014 Mini at home and an equally old Macbook because I prefer various aspects of those machines and the older OS. Turbotax pushed me along as well (same situation as you) until I finally got sick of it. The last two years I’ve run TT in Win10 under Parallels on the Macbook. Works great!

You could do something similar. Or buy a refurb Windows laptop just for running TT and any other Win applications. Plenty of good options for about $300 from eBay certified sellers. Same with Macs, for that matter (I’m super pleased with Pacificmacs on eBay). If you’re not doing heavy graphics/video just about anything–that has the PORTS you want–will work fine.

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I have an M1 Mini with 16GB/1TB. It’s not the better version with more ports. I’m not crazy about it. Factor in the cost of a hub or two.