Another browser that actually supports push notifications, so I can avoid installing apps on my phone and just run web apps for a lot of things?
Linux on my old iPad for a simple home server so I don’t have to toss it in the landfill for no reason and buy another device to run Linux on?
I used to jailbreak my iDevices all the time so I could run apps that Apple wouldn’t allow. How long was it before Apple allowed swipe typing?
Now it’s become too hard to jailbreak my devices, so I’m left unable to do any number of things. What things you want to know? I’m generally not the one writing the apps. I was the one discovering them on the Cydia app store and going “AHAH! I never knew I needed that, but boy am I excited to have that now!”
A shortcut straight to the camera app, just by double clicking the volume buttons while the phone is off?!? Yes please! I can’t tell you how many phone shots I miss because it used to take so long to get to the camera app. I didn’t know I needed that app until I saw it. Neither you nor I know what could be possible today if it weren’t for Apple getting in the way.
If you’re interested, lookup what Apple has added to iOS that came directly out of them copying jailbreak apps. Almost all of the most useful quality of life additions to iOS were available for years before Apple added them. It’s just that Apple wouldn’t let you install them.
Nobody is asking Apple to sell competitor products. No idea what you’re even trying to say. (Anyway, Apple does sell Microsoft software on the App store.)
Apple owns the App Store and a lot of contributors to this thread are saying they should not have the right to to choose what they will, or will not sell in their App Store. Apple is acting just like the vast majority of retailers act. Maybelline is considered a low end drugstore brand, and Saks only stocks only the highest priced beauty products. It was a PITA for me to have to schlep a distance from my office and wait on long lines to buy products that I wanted that Saks refused to sell in their well stocked, beautiful and convenient store. And there was never a question of Saks being forced to.
Saks does sell Nyx cosmetics, a very expensive upscale brand which is owned by the same company as Maybelline.
I didn’t suggest they cancel your iCloud account…just limit you to a single store. What do you think they should do to protect their legitimate intellectual property, security, financial, and reputation from harm due to a store they have zero control over? Doing nothing means they take the hit when the Epic store screws up. And in any case…they are not a monopoly anymore than BMW is…you can only buy one from BMW and can only run BMW software that you get from BMW and can’t run that software elsewhere. Since they aren’t a monopoly…it isn’t the government’s or the devs business how they choose to run their business for the benefit of their stockholders…devs also have a choice as do consumers.
You’re suggesting things I never said…and as I also said Apple has lots of smart people and should obviously make their own plans…and you can bet money they already have made them…they’re a lot of things but stupid isn’t on the list.
I know. My point was that what you are arguing for requires them to go a lot further than you are realizing. Think about them leaving iCloud turned on and all this supposed SPYWARE and MALWARE gets installed on your device and extracts your iCloud photos and contacts. That’s a lot bigger problem for Apple, and your proposal doesn’t prevent it. All that your proposal accomplishes is that now I’m not allowed to install both Fortnite and the Shortcuts app. I have to choose whether I want to play a game or have my device be useful for work. But either way, if you are convinced that Apple will take the flak for problems caused by Fortnite, they’ll get the same flak.
I think what they should do is throw up a large warning. Sure, make it a slow process. Make it a pain with 15 “are you sure” prompts, pointing out that Apple doesn’t have any control over what these potentially nefarious apps like Fortnite want to do to your phone and data. The user is already required to accept responsibility for what happens on the user’s device. Remind them of that, and point out that Apple has been “helping” you do that and they won’t be helping anymore. Then let people install what they want. Then anytime there is a report of a nation state hacking the iPhone or whatever (which already happens regularly, let’s remember), they can tut-tut about people installing non-Apple-approved software and pretend like it’s the user’s fault. Their reputation won’t be damaged.
I think what they will do if they are forced down this path is at the very least disable Apple Pay for those who want to venture outside the garden, possibly all of iCloud and Apple services.
One of the reasons to get specific is to see if there were gaps/missing apps that would make me want to shift my position on this. So far, no. The digital subscription issue is a bit annoying, but that’s the only one I’m really bothered by.
There isn’t one specific app I have in mind probably because it hasn’t been created or released. I have many non-appstore-apps on my Mac and I bet a bunch of them would make sense on my iPad. I like desktop computers and tablets but not laptops. I would like the iPad OS to be as much like the macos as possible (or at least more than it is) except that I absolutely do not like macos being influenced by iOS. I use my iPhone and its apps differently than I use my iPad and its apps and of course the Mac serves me differently than both the others. Except for creating notes, using the web, and sharing photos, I generally do much different things on each computer. However, for iOS, I more often use websites than corresponding apps when both are available. I wish many developers would do a better with their web apps. Usually, a lousy website means a lousy app and vice-versa. One benefit of Apple’s restrictiveness is probably that more is available on websites. Yet web practices seem to have gone downhill when I’m using my iPhone. I care about this far more than the app restrictions. The iPad experience is often far superior to the garbage that too often comes up (in Safari) on the iPhone.
And you probably would have said the same at each version of iOS through the past ten years, right? That’s why I pointed out that the features we have in iOS were often created not by Apple, but others in the jailbreak world. You like Control Center, pull down to refresh, and a million other things about iOS? You can thank jailbreakers who said, “We think there are apps Apple won’t let us run that would be good.” So now you want to know the killer feature that is missing right now without acknowledging the history of killer features that nobody knew they needed and were content without, just like you are now.
I listed a couple of killer apps that people want, like Fortnite, which is important to millions of people, and browsers with push notifications, also important to millions of people, and you shrug your shoulders and say, “I don’t personally need those.” So, what am I supposed to do, guess at what’s important to you that Apple currently won’t allow? That’s impossible. It’s even impossible for me to know myself what I want.
I’m curious if you can acknowledge that if it weren’t for people refusing to respect Apple’s much vaunted “wall” that iOS would suck today. Apple and you and I have all benefited from the competition. Unfortunately Apple’s gotten so good at preventing people from running the programs they want to run on the devices they own that they’ve killed the competition.
So, to return to your statement, once you realize how many killer features came from the jailbreak community, I think the fact that you currently can’t think of anything missing says more about your and my lack of creative thinking than anything else.
Actually, no. None of the things you mention would be deal breakers for me, so your point is wrong. Further, claiming jailbreakers are solely responsible for Apple adding a feature ignores that operating systems are updated all the time with new features and those features come from all sorts of places.
Yes – I make purchases based on my preferences and needs (and what I think will work best for people like my Mom). I’m not sure why you think that’s a problem – I’d recommend that you do the same and all those people who play Fortnite should do the same.
I note also that you’re telling me to privilege the need of the folks who play Fortnite over my own preferences and needs, which seems really strange. Do you make purchase choices based on the needs of millions of complete strangers?
As I noted, I don’t agree with that analysis, so it seems not.
Actually, I think it means that the actual consumer need for a more accessible iOS is drastically overestimated, and that the conversation (here and in other venues) is largely driven by the voices of developers and those with professional responsibility in the Mac world (ie, tech journalists, etc).
I know. My point was that what you are arguing for requires them to go a lot further than you are realizing. Think about them leaving iCloud turned on and all this supposed SPYWARE and MALWAREgets installed on your device and extracts your iCloud photos and contacts.
That’s a good point…and they will likely have to abide by whatever law gets passed until the inevitable lawsuits work out…but at the same time they need to protect their legitimate interests and not be in the position of having 2 stores at the same time because the blame then isn’t’ clear and it will be Apple, not the 3rd party store, that gets blamed by the user and the Apple haters in the press. Not all the press of course.
I think what they should do is throw up a large warning. Sure, make it a slow process. Make it a pain with 15 “are you sure” prompts, pointing out that Apple doesn’t have any control over what these potentially nefarious apps like Fortnite want to do to your phone and data. The user is already required to accept responsibility for what happens on the user’s device. Remind them of that, and point out that Apple has been “helping” you do that and they won’t be helping anymore. Then let people install what they want. Then anytime there is a report of a nation state hacking the iPhone or whatever (which already happens regularly, let’s remember), they can tut-tut about people installing non-Apple-approved software and pretend like it’s the user’s fault. Their reputation won’t be damaged.
I think what they will do if they are forced down this path is at the very least disable Apple Pay for those who want to venture outside the garden, possibly all of iCloud and Apple services.
I don’t think making it hard…no matter how hard they make it…will prevent people from blaming them so unless they are somehow prevented from doing so good engineering practice…at least the way I always used it back on the submarine and then in the sysadmin biz…was to anticipate as many problems that while unlikely could occur and do whatever I could ahead of time so that if they did occur I had already engineered the solution I would be using…and if I were them I would put a clear divide between their walled garden and whatever the other choice is. If that means telling the user they have to log out of iCloud that’s fine…then only the contacts and photos on the device in question get compromised. iCloud and inter device syncing is part of the walled garden…and not part of the 3rd party store. Doesn’t mean the user can’t have the 3rd party…but I would force the user to choose one way or the other if it was me unless my lawyers told me I wasn’t legally allowed to do that.
Not trying to argue…just to point out their concerns and how they might alleviate them…guess we’ll find out if/when the bills in question are signed into law.
But you did have the choice of going to a different store, however inconvenient it was for you, to obtain the product you wanted. With iOS, the situation would be akin to having Saks, and only Saks, as a place to buy your makeup.
But they’re not a monopoly…the judge has already ruled on that for reasons he described perfectly. Yes…they are the only place to buy Apple hardware and the only place to get software to run on that Apple hardware…but that doesn’t make them a monopoly in the smart phone market anymore than BMW being the only place to buy a BMW or use BMW software makes BMW a monopoly.
I realize there’s still ongoing appeals of the case…but unless the judge made a mistake of law…and from his opinion it looks like he didn’t…then the appeals court does not change the facts of the case…they’re just looking for judicial or remedy errors.
As I said before in another reply though…Apple’s store is not perfect…and they could and should improve it. That said…it is still less of a jungle than the various Android stores…I think we will all likely agree with that statement. Given that they’re not as bad as Android stores…making Apple’s store worse just so it will match Android’s seems counterproductive at best and stupid at worst…not to mention as a non monopoly the government has no legal right to force Apple’s business decisions. That doesn’t mean they’re not going try…e.g., the currently in Congress bills…and I doubt that either of them has enough votes to get passed…and we don’t know if the President would veto them or not…and there will then be the inevitable lawsuits as I believe those laws aren’t constitutional since no monopoly exists…and we know that Apple believes that already.
I’m not against 3rd party stores…but if Apple decides to allow them then Apple is perfectly justified in protecting their interests.
The equivalent would be refusing to leave Saks and insisting that they bring in whatever goods you demand, as opposed to going to the perfectly good Android Bloomingdales store down the street.
I don’t know if you’re just trolling, but obviously, I was drawing an analogy between the difficulty in switching ecosystems to relocating to a different country.
And I was disagreeing that it rose to that level of difficulty. One of the problems of argument by metaphor is that there’s no way to prove whose metaphor is correct, so it’s just back and forth.
The situation on smartphones is entirely different. On smartphones there are only two stores: Saks and Bloomingdales. I would definitely expect regulators to step in telling Saks what it can do in its stores when all of humanity has just these two stores to choose from (especially since they are following each other so closely effectively making any choice pseudo choice at best).
Perhaps some of you think duopolies are fine. I definitely don’t. The EU appears to agree. And fortunately for me, their anticipated actions will likely disrupt this duopoly far beyond just the EU. All the way to CA I hope (kind of like how we started setting US-wide emission standards by setting them in CA, the relevant market).
First of all, it is blatantly obvious in the context that what I’m talking about here is their monopoly within the iOS ecosystem.
Secondly, calling Apple a monopoly, no matter which way you (mis)interpret that, is NOT calling for Apple to be forced to sell other people’s products.