Apple Card Moving from Goldman Sachs to JPMorgan Chase

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Originally published at: Apple Card Moving from Goldman Sachs to JPMorgan Chase - TidBITS

In the Wall Street Journal, AnnaMaria Andriotis and Gina Heeb write (paywalled; Apple News+ link):

JPMorgan Chase has reached a deal to take over the Apple credit-card program from Goldman Sachs, according to people familiar with the matter.

The biggest bank in the country will become the new issuer of the tech-giant’s credit card, one of the largest co-branded programs with some $20 billion in balances, in a deal that has been negotiated for more than a year.

The deal, which is expected to be announced soon barring any more last minute hiccups, will further cement JPMorgan’s status as a behemoth in the credit-card sector and marks the final chapter of Goldman’s failed experiment in consumer lending.

It was only a matter of time before Apple found a company to replace Goldman Sachs, which has been trying to exit consumer lending since 2022. The Wall Street Journal reports that Goldman has lost over $7 billion since the beginning of 2020. Apparently, the deal with JPMorgan Chase took so long to negotiate due to “a high exposure to subprime borrowers and what has been a higher-than-industry-average delinquency rate.” I wouldn’t have expected that of the Apple Card.

JPMorgan will reportedly issue Apple Cards to new and existing cardholders, suggesting we’ll see new cards arrive in the mail, though the transition will take some time. JPMorgan also plans to open a new Apple Savings account, and existing Apple Savings account holders with Goldman can keep their accounts or open a new one with JPMorgan.

After the Wall Street Journal article was published, Apple released a statement and FAQ about the transition. The takeaways are:

  • From Apple’s perspective, it’s “Chase,” not “JPMorgan Chase,” presumably because Chase is the consumer and retail banking side of the company and the brand that cardholders will see.
  • The transition will take place in approximately 24 months, so nothing is happening anytime soon.
  • Apple Card policies and programs will remain unchanged: no fees, Daily Cash awards, Savings accounts, and Apple Card Monthly Installments. Mastercard will remain the payment network.
  • Given Apple’s carefully worded non-answers in the FAQ, it seems likely that Apple Card numbers will change and new physical cards will be required, with details being communicated as the transition date approaches.

Our main hope for this transition is that Apple will allow Chase to enable access to Apple Card account data through financial management apps and services, as with most other credit cards and bank accounts. It’s frustrating to hear Apple crow about the Apple Card’s ease of use on the iPhone while requiring users to download statements for import into apps like Quicken Classic and Moneydance.

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Apple Card interface (and Wallet app)
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But will they be titanium? :grin:

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I’m holding out for unobtanium.

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Oh, I hear ya, Adam. We’ve done a redivision of labor recently in our household and I’m now handling the day to day finances. Given my good experiences with using the retooled Quicken for settling my mother’s estate, I’ve shifted the household books into Quicken. Banks, credit card issuers, and lenders all have ways to transfer information into Quicken.

Apple does, too, but I had to really hunt for it. At the very bottom of a monthly statement screen, a link to “Export Transactions” will take you to an option to export a QXF file for the month. It’s rough, but it works.

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What would work even better of course is to establish a link directly to the account as other institutions allow. Let’s hope that’s the case once Chase gets set up.

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No. They will be very thin sheets of bamboo harvested sustainably and with thought for both design and our environment. The corner radii will conform to the current window guidelines for MacOS.

And inexplicably, they will be so sharp along the edges that they will slice fingers, wallets, and pocket linings.

I put mine in a locked box as soon as it arrived. The whole point of Apple Card is supposed to be not needing a physical card. :wink:

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For anybody interested, JPMorgan Chase’s CEO writes an in-depth essay for each year’s Annual Report that is similar in intent to the pieces Warren Buffett wrote each year for Berkshire Hathaway. The leader of Chase Bank and its credit card operations also writes an overview of her performance and goals.

So, I’d say Apple Card holders—and prospective holders—who view the card issuer as a criterion for whether to use a card, can make a more informed decision about Chase than for many other issuers.

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Just an FYI that the Banktivity mobile apps (which can sync with the Mac app) do allow direct download to Apple Card accounts. That said - after trying it out when it first came out and spending the next large chunk of time deleting years of duplicated transactions, I’m back to manually downloading and importing into Banktivity.

It’s not all that annoying to do compared with other credit card companies. I download the files on my phone each month and save you an iCloud Drive folder, and by the time I open my MacBook the file is there.

Apple Card interface (and Wallet app)
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I had an Apple Card but dropped it back in 2023. One reason I dropped it is because I’m “old school” and pay off my credit cards monthly either by mailing a check or at the local bank branch using a hard copy statement. Since I couldn’t do either with the Apple Card, I got rid of it. Now Chase has two branches in my city but since I already HAVE a Chase card, and refuse to have more than one cc from a particular financial institution, I can’t see getting another from Apple. Besides if I did, it would damage my excellent credit score!

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I’ve NEVER downloaded transactions from my financial institutions as they don’t have all the info I need to enter into my PFM software.

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I’d expect with a truly excellent credit score, the few point drop from even a hard inquiry should not result in any meaningful change. And certainly not for any prolonged period of time.

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Simon, I’ll have to see what happens with another card after a review this month. The issuer said they might reduce my credit limit because I apparently don’t either charge enough or carry my balances over every month. I guess they want me to max it out all the time! Sorry, but I don’t do that NOR did I ask for them to increase the limit over the past 27 years. :laughing:

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This isn’t surprising. The FICO score (which banks seem to use instead of doing their own research into your credit history) is designed to benefit those who regularly make charges and always pay at least the minimum charge on-time.

If you rarely charge anything, then your status is unknown. Vs. if you charge nearly everything you purchase (as I do, to maximize rewards) and pay it off every month, which shows that you have been responsible for all that time.

Limits are based on history. If you have proven that you have a use for a high limit and can handle it responsibly (by charging a lot and never missing a payment), then that’s better than if you never charge much, because the data doesn’t say anything about how you might handle a high limit.

If you have a billion dollars cash in the bank and never ever buy anything on credit, you’ll have a lower rating than someone who is just scraping by, but never misses a payment. Weird, but that’s the algorithm.

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David, I charge things ALL the time to this card (and the other 3) and I pay off every month. In the 27 years I’ve had THIS card, I’ve charged AND paid way into 6 digits on it. So my credit status IS known. Also, they were the ones who increased the credit limit automatically over the years based on my credit history.

Anyway, I doubt I’ll get another Apple Card since I already have a card from Chase.

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I recently got an ominous-sounding credit alert that a card I hadn’t used in a while had suddenly been used. This worried me, but when I checked out my credit report, the card in question was my Apple Card – which I use several times a week. The report claimed that card hadn’t been used in six months!

I pay this card off every week. Apparently since the card is paid off, Goldman doesn’t both reporting its usage to the credit bureaus. I guess recently I hadn’t paid it off at the end of a billing cycle, and though the balance was small and no payment was due, that amount got reported causing the bureaus to all think I was suddenly using an unused card. My credit score dropped by six points! :man_facepalming:t3:

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Just want to add a technical detail: essentially, card issuers have a limit, based on their assets and financial health, on how much total credit they can offer to card holders. So since issuers are allocating a finite resource, it is not uncommon for individual credit limits to ebb and flow depending on many factors. These factors can be related to the profitability of a client, how tightly tied to an institution a client is, and, sadly, political and public relations considerations.

Capital and reserve requirements also limit how many card issuers can work with Apple. Many people wonder why Apple chooses to work with “too big to fail” banks for Apple Card. The answer is that credit unions and regional banks don’t have access to enough money to support the gigantic scale of Apple Card.

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This is one of the top 10 banks in these United States in terms of assets.

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If you look at your credit report, you’ll see that the reports are monthly. For each account, it lists the balance for that month. If it is paid-off in full on the day they report, then they report a zero balance. If not (even if all charges are current and within the grace period), then they report that balance.

Which means, of course, that it’s not a reliable indicator. Someone like you will show low or zero balances, implying a lack of activity. And someone like me (who schedules payment-in-full for two days before the due date) always shows a balance - all charges since the statement’s closing date.

Six points is irrelevant. Pretty much round-off error. My score varies +/- 10 points every month simply due to the fluctuations of each month’s spending.

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Oh, good to know! I didn’t realize anyone had cracked that nut, though from what you say, it wasn’t a positive experience.

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And here I had gotten an Apple Card as an inexpensive status signal, vs. that Centurion Card from AMEX. ($10k initiation, $5k annual fee). You get what you pay for, I guess.

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I wouldn’t have either. There’s this common perception of Apple users as being these affluent hedonists.

But apparently, at least here in the US where the Apple Card exists, Apple users are not particularly wealthy, just overtly willing to spend beyond their means. :wink:

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