Our venerable HD Panasonic Viera Gas Plasma stopped powering up last November. We love the way it looks, not so glaring as LED displays, softer and more film like, and of course dumb as all get out.
The array of options in front of us didn’t inspire. Settled on a large OLED by Samsung and was resenting the amount of money for a box I really didn’t want… but before I bought a friend recommended a retired tv engineer about 30 minutes away. He took it on, worked on it, found a replacement board and imported some transistors from the US, did a bit of work… and it’s back up and running.
I had asked this question some time ago in this thread:
I still use the tuner occasionally but it’s more for a backup and watching on the computer as my main OTA viewing is on Sony and Samsung sets with a Vizio in the mix as well. With ATSC 3.0 implementation, I don’t think the Geniatech model I have is made anymore but seems to still be available on a few sites.
Yes. You need an ATSC digital tuner (analog broadcasts went away many years ago), but you can definitely still receive TV over the air.
Some less-expensive TVs don’t have tuners, but plenty do. And amusingly, they usually also have analog tuners limited to channels 3 and 4 - those used by old equipment like VCRs and game consoles.
Using a computer monitor as a TV can work if it has HDMI, but…
Large monitors are expensive. I can get a Samsung 4K 43" TV for $223. Good luck matching that price on a computer monitor.
If you are looking for bigger screens (e.g., 65" and larger), computer monitors get exponentially more expensive, assuming they can be purchased at all.
Not all computer monitors have audio, and many don’t have enough amplification to fill a room. I use a surround stereo system for my big TV, but not in the family room or my bedroom.
For certain rooms, I want a lot of ports on my TV. Several HDMI, and if possible, a few analog inputs (composite, component). Computer monitors usually ship with a lot of different kinds of ports, but often no more than one of each.
TV users want to connect different equipment and switch between them. Computer users usually only use one connection, but may have a variety of different kinds of signals (HDMI, DisplayPort, USB-C, DVI, etc.)
But it all depends on where you live as 60 miles is the general limit from the transmitter for full power stations assuming you don’t have a lot of trees, hills or other obstructions in the way. A good site for determining what you can receive in the U.S. is this one:
Just enter your address or a close one and it will give you a list of what you can receive or might possible receive depending on terrain, power output of station etc.
Also, I think the manufacturer can’t use the term tv or television unless it does have a tuner. Vizio made some monitors some years ago which appeared to be tv’s but was not clear about the lack of a tuner which caused some negative responses from those who thought it had one.
As for ATSC 3.0, current models from LG do not have that capability as well as most Samsung models except the higher end ones. Most Sony tv’s have ATSC 3.0 capability and some TCL ones so if you want that feature, you really have to check carefully. Some markets still don’t have any ATSC 3.0 channels.
EDIT: This site lists the models compatible with ATSC 3.0 which also lists Hisense and some tuner boxes:
Just like in the analog days. If you live too far from a station, then you may need a roof antenna, or maybe something even taller in order to get a clean signal.
Of course, in the analog days, you could get a staticky signal from distant stations, and with digital, you can’t. So that does change the math some what.
But this is very technical. Note that a “TV broadcast receiver” has to have a tuner, but doesn’t have to have a screen! A USB tuner counts, but a computer monitor does not.
But this looks more like a legal definition, not a marketing/branding regulation. If there is a tuner, then the regulations for “TV broadcast receivers” apply, and if there isn’t, it doesn’t.
I’ve seen plenty of TVs sold without tuners. Are they legal? I don’t know. Are they going to be prosecuted? Probably not. Does anybody really care? I don’t think so, as long as the packaging says so - all the models I’ve seen in Costco clearly said so.
Sounds familiar. I bought a Sony CRT multi system while in the military stationed in the EU. I could watch the AFN and local stations and so on. Brought it to the US and years later recall applying for a gov’t coupon on a digital convertor box. Set it up, used it a few minutes to make sure it worked, and didn’t turn it on again for a couple of more years. Was happy to turn it in for recycling!
Got distracted by exploring the innerwebs.
EDITED TO ADD: here where I am in the EU we have to pay 55€ quarterly in what’s commonly known as a tv tax, but it covers ota tv and radio. We have I think digital only tv and both analog and dgitial radio. There are a few exceptions but it’s sort of a forced support of broadcast media. As I haven’t watched tv or heard radio in the US in a very long time I can’t accurately compare, but here the general quality of radio and tv, when I consume them, has been satisfactory. The general idea may be that public funding provides a funding base that reduces the, ah, qualitative adaptations necessary for, ah, competetive broadcasting…
I bought a Tablo device, which includes an antenna and I use it to record over the air broadcasts. By attaching a USB hard drive (the one I have is powered by the usb drive) I am able to have many hours of broadcast TV available. They have their own internet channels included also. The best thing is that you pay once for the device and all done. No subscription costs. At least at this time.
It is a legal issue as well as common sense as the assumption is that if a model is called a tv, then it has to have a tuner:
Many were fooled by the Vizio marketing. Don’t know now but I do have a Vizio with a tuner that’s about eight years old.
As for analog, in the old days some stations could go much further but with all noise and static, it would be difficult to watch. The nice thing about digital tv is that as long as you have a good signal, the picture is as clear whether your near a transmitter or 60 miles away assuming the signal goes that far. Outdoor antennas are not always better but generally are but higher is not always better as signals can come from various paths when they become weaker. The RabbitEars site lists what type of reception one can expect given how far you are as well as the power of the station. ATSC 3.0 is supposed to be more robust and better with multipath but the rollout has been slow with many markets still without ATSC 3.0 or some just getting them now after many years of talk as well as DRM issues with some external tuners.
One qualification was that I did have to plug the Tablo device directly in to one of my WiFi Mesh devices to minimize buffering during the olympics and it has worked fine since then.
It would interesting, maybe alarming, to compare the energy requirements of free-to-air TV compared with on-demand streaming of video. There is understandable fuss about the energy needs of AI but I expect that streaming video data is also consuming large amounts of energy.
[quote="Michael Paine, post:30, topic:29015, username:mpainesyd”]
It would interesting (…) to compare the energy requirements of free-to-air TV compared with on-demand streaming of video.
[/quote]
One dubious assumption, IMHO, is that people tend to stream to smaller, less energy consuming devices like smart phones. I don’t think this a fair comparison with people watching, say, evening entertainment at home.
They do make the point…“For example, the energy used in the digital terrestrial television (DTT) infrastructure is very similar whether one person or 25 million people are watching. So, with a decline in audiences watching via traditional broadcast platforms, the share of distribution energy used per viewing hour will increase as fewer people watch on broadcast platforms.”
So the average energy efficiency of OTA is effectively gradually reduced due to many people moving to streaming, which consumes more energy per viewer until around 2033 when the energy used for OTA serves fewer viewers and so, per viewer, is assumed to equal streaming.
My quick guess is that the assumption may be more valid than it might appear because I think there is a strong correlation between age and ownership of home audio and video gear. Anecdotally, it seems to me that a lot fewer people who are, say, in their 40s or younger, have some sort of amplifier-CD player-turntable-tape deck-speakers set up or a room dedicated to a large TV set than people who are older.
Part of this may be due to demographic trends and preferences: younger people often live in shared or relatively small properties, don’t have large collections of physical media, and are digital-world natives. Another factor could be a decline of television programming’s place in popular culture. The idea of people dedicating a specific night every week to watch “Must See TV” seems pretty archaic these days, no?
There’s no difficulty in replacing the Verizon router–the proprietary ONT (in the basement, in my case) that converts the optical signal coming through the fiber into separate signals for TV, voice, and data is all you need, and it’s included in the service (for $29/mo in my case). Mine’s hooked up to my new-ish Sony OLED via a Synology RT660ax router to an Apple TV (hardwired, but she can connect using wifi if she wants); the HDMI cable from the Apple TV thus is the only thing connected to it, other than the indoor antenna that allows me to watch OTA using a program guide generated internally by the TV from its scan of the available signals.
Sony’s program guide still needs the internet (at least on my OLED) which seems to be the issue that the OP was discussing. Some tv’s/tuners can make a program guide without the internet from the basic information that comes OTA. My Samsung QLED which is around five years old can do that.
If all you want is Internet access, basic TV and voice-phone calls, then you can use any router you like with the ONT.
Certain FiOS-TV features, however, require Verizon’s router. Back when I had FiOS, it was needed for the multi-room DVR to work (where you have one DVR that can stream to multiple set-top-boxes throughout the home). It was also required for on-screen caller ID and a few other convenience features.
I don’t know if the on-screen program guide requires Verizon’s router. It might, because that works even if you don’t subscribe to Internet service. So it probably has a proprietary channel somewhere. And I do remember that my set-top boxes all self-configured for a different IP subnet from my computers.
But when I had FiOS TV, the program guide was absolutely a feature of the set-top boxes, not a separate Internet app. But maybe that has changed. Or maybe that’s separate from some program guide provided by a smart TV.
Regarding spyware, if you subscribe to any live TV service (cable, fiber, streaming, etc.), the service provider will know what you’re watching. The days when cable TV worked like broadcast (where you receive all channels and tune in one) went away a long time ago. They’re all streamboxes of some kind, even if you are “tuning” in to channel numbers. So the service provider (and any Neilsen-like ratings service they send data to) will know what you’re watching (or at least what your sets are receiving). There’s no way around this unless you switch all your TV viewing exclusively to receiving over-the-air broadcasts.
You may find this article of interest if you want to use your own router with FiOS. It describes what to do, what won’t work if you do, and ways to work around those problems.
FiOS One set-top boxes require Verizon’s router to be the primary router. You can connect your own router to the Verizon router (creating additional subnets) if you like.
If the Verizon router was connected to the ONT via Coax/MoCA, you’ll need to switch that to Ethernet in order to use your own router.
FiOS TV features like the program guide and on-demand video won’t work without Verizon’s router. But you can connect it as a secondary router, to your own router, in order to serve your set-top boxes, but without affecting the rest of your LAN.
That’s interesting–I’ve always assumed there’s some metadata in the broadcast stream that my Sony 55” A80J (or any other TV with a digital tuner?) can use to construct a guide using the antenna input. Sounds like something’s changed. If so, too bad.
I did set up an account with Sony when I first got the thing to explore what they had to offer. Wasn’t interested in any of it, and the TV is fully functional without being connected to it or a FiOS router.
I know the older Sony’s did not need internet access for OTA guide information similar to my Samsung. But my 3 year old Sony has to be connected to get guide information as I tried it without it and it will tell you to connect to internet if not available. Basic OTA information is there when you switch channels such as name of program etc. so that metadata comes through. I don’t know if this is because Sony uses Google for their system or not.
