Actually, it has been you. But more importantly, why mischaracterize what I’m saying?
I don’t think Apple has stagnated. In fact, I’ve pointed out several times they have done a lot on the iOS side and that they have massively increased their market value. None of that has anything to do with stagnation. The actual point I was trying to make is that if you’re a customer on the Mac side with no interest in iOS, you’re left with really not a whole lot. The Mac side has, yes, stagnated as Apple’s interest has wandered off. Now you can disagree there, and I’m perfectly fine with that. But please stop telling me what it is that I am supposedly arguing. It’s condescending and it really doesn’t advance the discussion.
I don’t think Apple’s interest in Mac has wandered off; if this was true, they wouldn’t be upgrading Mac OS as often as they are. The market for desktop and laptop computers, Macs or PCs, continues to shrink. John or Jane Q. Public just isn’t replacing their hardware as frequently as they used to. The sales have been falling off across the board. This is why I think that in the past year, Apple developed the Mac Pro for a very specific and demanding market that, as well as for new MacBooks and Mini for everyone else. And I think that enabling developers to build apps that run on both Macs and iPads is another indication Macs aren’t being ignored.
What I’ve been reading is that Apple is at work upgrading the Mac line with its new ARM processors for 2020. I expect we’ll see more bells and whistles then.
I think I’d add to Adam’s definition of whining that whiners can’t be convinced to change their view. These whiners are more trolls than participants, endlessly bringing up the same issues regardless of any logic or evidence to the contrary posted by others.
I find that to be the most frustrating aspect of the whining. I’m find with complaining, if the person is open-minded enough to accept alternative solutions. (Jobs himself is famous for changing his mind when he was proven wrong.) But to endlessly blather on about the world ending isn’t productive.
For example, I am not a fan of Apple’s new keyboards. Unlike most, I don’t care about key travel and the reliability factor hasn’t been too much of a problem for me. I have a 2015 MacBook (the first with the butterfly keyboard) and after years of use, I still can’t get used to the new arrow keys. Dozens of times a day my fingers press the wrong keys since the arrows aren’t standard (Apple removed the empty space above the left/right arrows that made it easy for your fingers to find the keys). Apple has moved all their keyboards in this direction, which is a huge design flaw for me as a writer.
But did I bitch and whine here about this problem? No. I bought an external keyboard for my 2016 MacBook Pro (which I use as a desktop computer), and I recently picked up a cheap old 2017 15” MacBook Pro with useable arrow keys, MagSafe connector, and no USB-C for more portable needs (I save the 12” MacBook for travel).
Would I rather have bought a newer MacBook? Sure, and I will, once Apple rectifies the situation (if ever). But in the meantime I’ve got stuff that works for me and I move on and get work done. Whining is pointless.
There’s already Twitter for people with a short attention span. And YouTube for people who have trouble with written communication.
If you don’t like this thread, then unsubscribe from it or don’t read it. Trying to ban in-depth communication is a new low in modern culture.
Helpful tip: There’s probably a way to hide the posts of certain users. Homework assignment: take some of your valuable time to research the issue and present a solution to the rest of us. Clue: the forum software is called Discourse.
I share your horror at big tech’s hoarding and share of our private data (including all of our searches for all of eternity, from which at the very least personal medical issues can be gleaned).
Here’s the rub though: those people you are hoping that Apple is saving with a more private version of Safari, they are using Chrome. And may be complaining about their privacy in the same day. I have an office full of young tech workers. Even with a soft ban on Chrome (they use their own computers, mainly MacBooks so I can’t hard ban software and some of us occasionally do need to test on Chrome) and regular warnings about privacy, at least half of them use Chrome as their main browser.
Most people are silly sheep who pay no attention to their personal safety and rely on being part of the herd to protect them. It’s sad but true. After the Snowden papers were published in 2013, almost no one paid attention to Prism (Apple joined in 2012, right after Steve Jobs was conveniently out of the way: Jobs was a notoriously private person and powerful enough to push back against joining).
Apple would do more for privacy if they created an add-on which worked in previous versions of Safari and created a huge privacy awareness campaign. I recognise and salute Tim Cook’s mild recent effort to remove built-in integration with LinkedIn and Facebook from the OS and to warn people about protecting their privacy.
I’m not saying they are not worth talking about or discussing. I’m talking about their global value to a desktop computing platform. I find that generally these features are part of trying to create a walled garden which forces me to use Apple and only Apple services. As I’m a big supporter of the open internet (I regularly donate to open source freeware and contribute to shareware as well as contribute code), this kind of activity by Apple to push their cloud solution on me alienates me. Are you familiar with the terms of the iTunes store? All those applications and music files and movies you think you’ve bought? Nope. Your widow doesn’t get them. Your children don’t get them. They disappear with you. This is a significant loss of rights in comparison to the days of DVD, Blu-ray and packaged software. I’m not on board.
How does making OS upgrades free fit with that narrative? They used to charge quite a lot and then (and it was Cook who did it, not Jobs), they stopped charging. That sure feels like looking out for us.
As I mentioned earlier, each OS upgrade and all the attendant bugs and checking third party applications and getting used to where Apple has moved the cheese and incremental updates cost me about $1000 to $2000 in lost work time. Granted, as an expert user, I use a lot of different software so my situation is quite a bit worse than the average user.
I’ve since cut back on that lost time by refusing to use most Apple software and services and only upgrading to mature OS (in the final or next to final point upgrade, notable exception this computer which is on Mojave to allow me access to the most recent FCPX – which also annoys me, High Sierra should be enough but it’s not).
I’d far prefer to get significant OS upgrades every two or three years and pay for them than go through some annual beta testing process with free software which is trying to rope me into services I don’t want and with each version is compromising my privacy further (a bit of rollback in Mojave actually, which I’m happy to see) and locking down my own use of my computer further. Up to $100 for an OS upgrade wouldn’t bother me at all, every two years. For that money, I’d expect the OS to be properly beta-tested on not dumped on me in such buggy form as is currently’s Apple’s practice.
That is as long as the charge is per user or per family and not per device and as long as the upgrades are not DRM’d as that is what made both moving between Microsoft and backing up Microsoft computers so painful. Freedom to install and migrate is what made Apple different. With the T2 chip and the latest security routines, Apple users on the latest hardware are indeed losing that freedom.
Apple is slowly becoming Microsoft, slowly sliding her velvet gloved hands tight around our throats. Albeit with less garish marketing and better icons.
This is a remarkably fundamental misunderstanding of Apple and its history. Not because it’s incorrect, but because it’s something Apple has always done to a greater or lesser degree. Complaining about Apple and a ‘walled garden’ is like complaining about water being wet. Complaining as if this is a new thing is like complaining that the water’s been wetter recently. And joining the Apple ecosystem and then complaining about the Apple ecosystem is like jumping in a swimming pool and whining about how wet you got.
I’ve been using Apple computers full time since about 1994, David. I did consider jumping ship around 2000 until Steve Jobs came back and started to clean up the product line and add normal ports and functionality to Macs again. Apple did open up to open source (hence BSD Unix and OS X). Yes, we are now going back to the bad old days of proprietary ports and doesn’t play well with others again. That’s exactly what Simon and I are complaining about.
I’m very tired of this mischaracterisation of people who take issue with ecological and user-unfriendly actions of Apple (ever worse Apple Care, bad keyboards, no 17" laptops or matte screens, hardware which can’t be repaired, computers locked down so that users cannot install or transfer data easily: SIP and T2) as whiners.
Frankly from the perspective of balanced people many of you look and behave like cult members. When you hear something you don’t like, you all want to silence us and lock us out. Just like cult members. When I agreed to buy, use and evangelise Apple products in the post-Steve return error, it didn’t mean that I agreed to uncritical adoration of a corporate entity whose only concern these days is its quarterly reports as the executive is so busy buying and selling Apple shares to be worried about whether keyboards work or users are getting the software they want (i.e. FCP Studio upgrade, Apple Aperture). Instead we are all having iOS shoved down our throats as that’s a revenue expansion point for Apple along with digital services.
I bought into a the products of a computer hardware manufacturer and software publisher not a monolithic cloud host and bad-mannered digital storefront much less a mobile phone vendor. Of course Apple is welcome to take up other lines of business, but those of us who use their computers should not have to leave our reason at the door and worship their new products uncritically.
Apple has mainly been failing their computer and computer software users for the last seven years. And I’d like Apple to improve so I can go back to buying more of their products and enjoying what I do own more.
There’s nothing whinier than the anti-whining brigade. If it was up to you lot, the Earth would still be flat because the Church and the Inquisition told you it was so. Critical thinking is what creates improvement. Dogma does not, rose-coloured spectacles do not.
Steve Jobs was the one who originally made Macs highly inaccessible, used non-standard and Apple only ports, and generally closed the Mac off from the rest of computing. He built that exclusion into the Mac’s DNA and never truly backed off of it, even when there was some opening up after his return.
Water’s wet, Alec. It’s going to be wet no matter how many times you complain about it and no matter how many threads you sidetrack with it.
I am responding to Adam’s original post here… the reason you deal with the complainers and whiners etc is at the end of the day it comes down to what type of site you want and what it is you want to achieve.
Yes, there is a lot of troll-like behaviour going on all over the internet. There are a lot of Android and Windows people who have never owned an Apple product saying things where they really shouldn’t. However in silencing them in this way you also silence an Apple product owner from saying something. macOS and iOS are more complicated and complex than ever and there’s a lot to complain about.
The question you have to ask yourself is whether you care about the latter group. If you don’t care then whatever. If you do then you have an opportunity to do something up to and including another company’s product(s). Having used Apple products and been the typical Apple evangelist since the Mac SE I’ve gotten really tired of a lot of thing with Apple and I’m fixing it all for myself in a very different way than previously. These days I’m buying, and more often than not recommending, a competing product. This is not to say the alternate product isn’t flawed because they invariably are. Thing is they’re significantly cheaper enough that its far less of an issue. And yes, purchase price (not a recommended retail price - actual purchase price) is a factor that hugely affects how we feel about things.
So if you don’t care to hear about my varying levels of “unhappiness” with Apple products I’ll keep it all to myself… not that I’m particularly sharing it around here. At which point everyone loses an opportunity to do anything about it. Things then become a discussion as to why I’m using Android and Windows as opposed to iOS and macOS which takes me away from here all together. I am drifting away from Apple at this time as its my belief that if Apple is better than the rest it should be self evident and my faith will be renewed. That’s not been happening!
Don’t get me wrong, I hear you in that much of it is hard to read. But the volume of “negativity” also reflects the volume of Apple device owners out there doesn’t it? Also, many of those device owners didn’t come through the 68K, PPC and Newton days like “us”. They all left somewhere/something else to become Apple users.
So to sum up… think carefully about what it is you’re wishing for.
If you just complain about things you don’t like, there’s nothing anyone can do about it. None of us can fire Tim Cook, redesign iOS to your liking, bring Steve Jobs back from the dead, add ports to the MacBook Pro, make Apple charge less, or anything else.
So complaining about such things just makes us feel impotent and unhappy too. I’m sorry if that’s how Apple makes you feel, but only you can change that, either by accepting things or switching to a different platform.
On the other hand, if you have a concrete problem that might have a solution, then you can ask about it here (well, not in this cesspool of a thread) and people will try to help you. That could help in all sorts of ways. You might get your problem solved. Others with the same problem might read the solution too. And those who provided it get the positive chops of being helpful, contributing members of a community. Everyone wins!
I really do recommend that those who feel the desire to share all this negativity reconsider, since it’s bad for both you and the rest of us.
I really don’t mind the ecosystem and walled garden.
But if Apple ever stops allowing me to download software freely from non-Apple sites on my MacBook Pro, I am done with them.
I am hoping the class action anti-trust suit against the Apple App Store succeeds. So I don’t have to jailbreak my phone to personalize the display or add features Apple chooses not to provide.
I’m not a lawyer, so won’t hazard a guess if this lawsuit has any chance of the plaintiffs winning. But there are a lot of developers that resent paying Apple 30%. You notice since the suit was filed, Adobe Apps are available in the App Store again.
And here’s the thing about being forced to use Apple’s products: In the Catalina beta, iTunes is gone, replaced by Apple Music App. In the past, I could upload my own music that I ripped and have that music available on all my devices. I could pay $25 a year for Music Match and get the Apple Music Library version of the songs I had ripped.
That is ALL GONE in Catalina. All my music library and playlists were no longer present in the new Music App when first launched. It only came back when I agreed to a 90 free trial of Apple Music. I do not know if the playlists and library and the Music Match will remain once I cancel my Apple Music subscription next month.
I am very happy with Spotify and will see if I can export the library metadata and import into Spotify.
My point is my music library is MINE. It belongs to me, not to Apple. They held what was MINE in their cloud and denied me access to MY music until I agreed to their extortion and took the trial, which starts costing money if I neglect to cancel.
How many successful companies were started because the founder hated the status quo?
If anyone with my iOS device unlock code can easily change my AppleID password and lock me out of my iPhone, and stop all app store apps from working, and cut me off from their cloud, that is a serious defect and one worth discussing. And Apple’s Account Recovery System kept me out of my account for 32 days.
A million people complained in Hong Kong and got the government to back down. The United States of America was founded by complainers who did not like what the King was doing to his colonists.
I am NOT WHINING. I’m not making blanket statements or disparaging Apple or its management.
I am pointing out ONE VERY SPECIFIC THING. I just want this ONE THING fixed. And it won’t get fixed until enough people COMPLAIN about it and journalists write about it and it damages Apple’s image and reputation.
I can deal with all the rest of the crap, they are annoyances. Even the Photos Not Syncing problem. I can switch to Google Photos if I want. My originals are for the moment safe in iCloud.
Things could be improved but they don’t screw up my life the way this security flaw did and does for anyone unlucky enough to get caught in it.
I am also drifting away from Apple. A few years ago I would never have considered a competing product. Now I’m pretty convinced I will seriously look and maybe leave Apple. I sold most of my Apple stock and bought more Google. Knowing they collect my data in some ways.
Could Adam make a difference at Apple if he really wanted to?
Yes, because lots of people read his commentary that don’t read yours or mine. And especially not in this thread.
In all this whining there are also some very specific things that Apple needs to fix and one way they will do that is via pressure from people like Adam.
Instead, because we are angry at not being heard by Apple (there is no more Mac World Expo where we got to meet face to face with Apple managers and engineers), he relegates any specific criticism of Apple to this thread of people he labels as whiners and complainers.
If there is a workaround, I agree that we should all learn to live with it and direct our concerns through Apple’s official feedback. No use complaining about only Thunderbolt Ports. Buy an adapter and live with it.
But if the only workaround is to switch platforms, that I think justifies bringing to light these things for which there is no workaround. And fighting for change and better responsiveness. That is not whining or claiming Apple sucks.
I’m not complaining though, and you’re right, no-one can do anything about it other than me and I’m doing just that. But that’s not really my point. If people don’t express their views, right or wrong, those views can’t be heard by anyone. Most importantly, can’t be heard in order to be discussed.
Apple’s “trajectory” can’t be changed by anyone but Apple. I know that. What’s changed for me is that I no longer care about what they “might do” or how they may do something. The only things that matters now is what they offer to me to actually buy. This is now no different to how I evaluate the products from anywhere else. Maybe this is my doing/fault.
For me its about the discourse. Great things happen when people talk and discuss. But if everyone only wants to hear how awesome Apple is then there’s not much of a discourse just like the opposite is not much of a discourse.
I’m not. I’m quite thankful for it actually as I’ve changed my momentum. There’s a wide world of a lot of different and exciting products out there. I’ve now allowed myself to enjoy them… for better and/or worse. And because those things are more often than not cheaper I have greater freedoms to experiment with certain things. So yeah, changed it, accepted what needs accepting and finally, done (well really doing) it.
And as observation for you, notice how I’m writing it? There’s not a lot of opportunity for anyone to say “hey, have you considered………?”.
Being a Level 7 (or 8 - can’t remember) on ASC I figured out a long time ago my own problems always end up in the too hard basket for everyone. So I learnt then that if I want my problems solved do it myself. This is OK too. I know what I know because of it.
And if that “whine” is that Apple products cost too much?? lol
Don’t get me wrong, in some instances I find things underwhelming for the price and at the same other things to be great value. It all depends on the perspective. My specific problem is that that value gap is constantly getting smaller and I’m becoming less and less tolerant of glossing over it.
If Apple want to sell something I want to buy then fab… if not there’s always someone else (or not). I’m quite happy to have a buy nothing reduction in my tech/device spending too!
