I haven’t had luck with Recovery stuff with Apple’s OS. So I hope there isn’t a problem in the future. I use CCC to simply sync data from an external SSD to an external HDD. In fact, a 3 yo Samsung SSD 2.5 inch drive just died on me. I was able to copy all 4 TB of stuff to a new SSD I happen to have (sadly, another Samsung but this is a slower T7). I don’t do incrementals and gave up on Time Machine because it would run at inopportune times and I couldn’t get it to stay scheduled.
I’m not sure I understand this: why aren’t you using recovery to install to the internal SSD? That’s the only way I would do it.
The internal drive is dead. This happened to me twice: first the SDD component of the Fusion Drive failed, and this year it was the HDD component.
With Apple Silicon Macs, if the internal drive is nonfunctional, then the computer will not boot to an external drive.
Are there any Macs that shipped with spinning hard drives, or fusion drives, which are supported by Sequoia? (I just looked it up - only a single model: the 2019 iMac 4K could have a Fusion Drive, and that was optional, and it’s Intel and has no T2 chip, so I think is unaffected by this issue.)
But still… let’s say you have an Apple Silicon MacBook Pro which came with Ventura (like mine), and is currently on Sonoma (like mine). Your internal SSD dies, so you take it to the Apple Store and get it replaced.
A week later you have your computer back, but it is on Sequoia. You want it to be on Sonoma. What to do?
The problem is that macOS Recovery doesn’t let you pick which macOS version it will install. On Intel Macs you have limited options: macOS computer came with, macOS it is currently on, or most recent macOS. None of those will work.
On Apple Silicon, as far as I can tell, you have no choice at all. So if it installs Sequoia, you’re stuck, because the macOS installer won’t let you downgrade. You can’t even use it to installer a lower version of macOS on an external drive.
So, I think your only option would be:
- Create a USB flash drive installer for macOS Sonoma.
- Boot from that. (Note: For many years now, this has never worked for me.)
- While booted from this, install macOS Sonoma on the internal drive. Is this even possible?
- Boot back to internal drive.
- Migrate data from data-only backup.
Or, if you have a bootable backup:
- Boot from bootable backup.
- Full clone to internal drive.
- Boot from internal.
Well, the title of this thread is “It’s time to give up on bootable backups”, and I think its caveat should be “It’s time to give up on downgrading MacOS.” My Apple Silicon Macs always run the latest release - basically I treat them like mobile devices like iPhone and iPad. Even if I was keeping Sonoma on one of them this fall (not that I would - I greatly prefer Sequoia), I’d have just moved on with Sequoia in the hypothetical you cite.
But if you really need to downgrade an Apple Silicon Mac, you’d use another Mac to use Apple Configurator to DFU restore the Mac. See How to reinstall the current version of macOS or downgrade it – The Eclectic Light Company
I believe that this is a service that Apple Genius Bar can do for you, though I could be wrong about that. I have a few Macs so not an issue for me, but, again, I’d just keep it on the latest release anyway.
So far I have not had an SSD fail on an Apple Mac, even an Intel, with SSDs as old as 2014 models. It would be interesting to learn if anyone has had an internal SSD failure like you describe. I imagine it’s pretty rare.
The past few posts from Michael and Doug explain the issue perfectly. It has made what used to be quick and easy, extremely hard or impossible.
Having a securely locked OS is a great concept but it clearly comes with significant consequences. Bricking a machine is unacceptable for people who need their machines to make a living and where time is critical. There are dozens of times over the past 10 years where booting from a clone kept our production running and deadlines met, and there’s now circumstances where this can’t happen.
For mine the biggest concern of @mschmitt’s scenario is the statement “A week later you have your computer back”. From past experience I’d be very surprised if it only took a week.
As for OS versions, some people simply prefer to run older versions of an OS whether it be for practical reasons or personal choice. Forced upgrades aren’t cool.
Finally, I realise no amount of complaining or explaining will change Apple’s mind - but it doesn’t mean it’s not a bone-headed decision done for Apple’s convenience rather than the users’.
Backups are always important. You should back up your external media as well as internal storage.
On the plus side, restoring a non-boot volume is much easier than recovering from a filed boot drive. If you were making clones, just clone your backup to the replacement drive. If were using a backup package that stores files in a database (e.g. Retrospect), then use its restore mechanism.
True, but if the internal SSD survives infant mortality, odds are that the only thing likely to make it fail will be exceeding the write-cycle limit. If you think this is a serious concern, you can use an external SSD (preferably Thunderbolt for maximum performance) as your boot device and don’t use the internal one for anything. You will take a performance hit, but the internal SSD will hardly ever have any data written to it, and it should last at least as long as the rest of the computer.
But so far I haven’t seen any reason to recommend this solution. The internal flash storage Apple ships now are much more reliable than the SATA-based flash storage they used for fusion drives.
Not quite. You can’t run an installer package to downgrade a system volume. But you can boot to Recovery mode, then use Disk Utility to delete your macOS volumes (System and Data), and then install the version you want.
Note that if your Mac’s recovery mode doesn’t let you download/install the version you want, you may have to jump through some hoops. One of the following should work:
- Download an installer package from the app store. Install macOS to an external device. Boot from that device and from there, delete your internal device’s macOS volumes. Then run that installer to install macOS to the internal device.
- Download an “ipsw” software installer image (e.g. via links from the Mr Macintosh site and use Configurator from another Mac to install it via DFU mode.
Either way, you’ll need to restore your Data volume or use Migration Assistant to restore your documents and apps.
See this AppleInsider article for many ugly details.
I didn’t say the downgrade process will be easy, but it is possible.
This I disagree with. I think the vast majority of users are best served by a locked OS and OS upgrades ASAP. Maybe not for the typical Tidbits user, but we’re not most users, and I think we can deal with and work with and around these restrictions quite well.
My last ten to fifteen years of computer use on Macs have been the most stable of my life - they are the most reliable they have ever been for me… Generally the only times my Macs restart are when OS upgrades get delivered (there are also restarts of course for the desktops when we have power outages). I’m reminded a bit of the Louis CK “everything is amazing and nobody is happy” sometimes.
I’ll also note that I once did Mac cloned backups and I always found issues - every time I booted the clone to check if it was ok, things were just a bit messed up. The boot took longer; performance was poorer. Dropbox required authentication (that’s just the one app/service that I remember having issues - there may have been more.) It generally worked, but it didn’t “just work”.
A Time Machine for my Time Machine I suppose. (It’s almost always a backup drive that fails.)
Because I always have multiple backups, on site and off site, incremental for both, I’m rarely bothered by a lost external - I just replace it and carry on.
And this is the point - everyone’s experience will be different. I’m yet to get Migration Assistant to correctly migrate one of our CCC clones (I’ve had discussions on here (and privately) with Mike and there’s just something not quite right with MA. My case is unusual as we run our own builds of Apache and PHP but it should still work.
On the other hand, I’ve never had an issue with a booted clone. I accept the speed won’t be the same as an internal drive but if the choice is between instantly rebooting a 10% slower machine and waiting a couple of weeks for a new machine which may be on a wrong OS and may not migrate properly it’s not really a decision at all.
My work is deadline driven publishing and Apple has removed the safety net we enjoyed. Maybe the Apple market is now just Instagram and tiktok viewers but some of us still do real work where we can’t afford hours, days or weeks without a functional machine.
I’d like the choice to do it. I’m happy to shoulder the risks - just don’t prevent me from doing it. Some users don’t want to be dictated to by the lowest common denominator.
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For Apple Silicon, if you really need something older like Sonoma or Ventura, you could run a virtual machine in UTM. For Intel, VMware Fusion would work.
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When I had an issue a few months ago with botched firmware on my M1, the Genius Bar tech used Configurator to restore it. I asked him how recent the image was and he said they’re updated daily so I don’t think I could have gone back to anything earlier since it was a Sequoia image but I suppose it’s possible. I wanted the latest OS anyway. He did say that it’s the same thing you can do yourself as long as you have another compatible computer to run in DFU mode.
Sorry. I thought this was in reference to using external storage as boot or data drives. If it’s a backup device then your existing system of making multiple redundant backups should be fine.
That’s what the Genius Bar does. The Configurator utility can be used to image a Mac with any IPSW restore image, not just the latest one. You can download images for many different macOS images from Apple’s servers. (As I cited above, the Mr. Macintosh site maintains links to them.)
Everyone’s experience doesn’t matter. Apple has clearly made a decision here on which way to go…and all of the bellyaching and hand wringing they simply do t care about.
The choice is to accept…use Windows…or use Linux.
Sure, anyone can download whatever. But when you take your computer in to the Genius Bar for an issue under warranty, you’re not necessarily going to get your choice of OS from my understanding (because of the firmware issue) but someone else who has more experience on that issue can chime in as I only had to go there once for that.
I’m sure they will, by default, always install the latest version.
Whether they can or will install an older version if you explicitly ask them to is a different question and I’d also love to know the answer.
When I read your post, I misunderstood your intent. I thought you were implying that Configurator can only install the latest version, and that’s what I was responding to. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Maybe if it’s out of warranty they would assuming you pay for their time but it seems like Apple wants everything updated to the latest on all devices which is fine with me since if I have to use a VM for something, then I would go that route or just use an older computer.
It’s still possible to make a bootable backup on an M machine with Sequoia 15.2. In order to do that, you have to use Apple’s installer to install the OS onto an external disk, and then use that disk for your data clone backups. At one point there was an article on the CCC website that detailed this approach (it might still be there, but I couldn’t locate it just now). I have an external bootable backup disk that I created using this approach and it contines to work fine with 15.2. Note however that you have to update the OS on your external disk separately from the internal disk. To do that, you have to actually boot from the backup disk, so it’s an extra step whenever there is an OS update. But it solves problem of being able to boot to a clone of your data disk when you need to continue working.
Yes. Here’s a link to the article:
https://bombich.com/en/kb/ccc/6/cloning-macos-system-volumes-apple-software-restore
The recommendation, if you require a bootable backup, is to make a normal backup of the Data volume, then install macOS onto the backup volume (which will create a System volume and link the two together). You can then make incremental backups of the data volume.
But as you and the article point out, if you want to upgrade that macOS installation, you need to either run a macOS installer to reinstall macOS on the backup (which will blow away all of its snapshots) or boot the device and use Software Update.
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