I decided to revise my b/u strategy after learning that my Carbon Copy Backup was not bootable. I decided to experiment for now with Time Machine and Backblaze. I’ve used CCB for many years, but everything changes, and it seems time to look at a different solution for protecting my data from loss.
A question for all the people who make bootable backups on a weekly schedule, which includes @david_blanchard, @aldus_vet, @mschmitt, and @akent35. What’s your plan for recovery?
The benefit of a bootable backup is that you can get up and running very quickly in the event of a disaster. If you make your bootable backup every night, the worst-case scenario is that you could be a single workday out of date. However, with a weekly bootable backup, you could be seven days out of date. If we assume that the bootable backup is important because you cannot waste extra time restoring files from Time Machine or the like, how do you deal with the fact that a weekly bootable backup is almost guaranteed to lack multiple days of file change and additions?
The best answer to this question that I can think of is that you keep all your working files in cloud storage. In that case, you boot from your bootable backup, after which Dropbox/iCloud Drive/Google Drive makes the latest versions of all your files instantly available.
If you have to employ another restoration step, such as bringing files back from Time Machine, I’m not seeing the benefit of the weekly schedule. You’d have to put effort into manually identifying which files were out of date and restoring just them, which is slow and error-prone. It’s hard to see that being a big win over just reinstalling macOS and restoring everything using Migration Assistant.
I’m also curious. With these weekly bootable backups, do you have to connect the backup drive manually each week? One of the reasons I recommend nightly duplicates is that the drive can remain attached all the time such that it’s less likely that you could forget.
I do realize that I’m operating from the bias of a desktop Mac here. I’ve never used a laptop Mac as my primary machine, but I could imagine that it would make backups significantly less reliable because you always have to remember to plug in the drive. In general with backups, I always aim for systems that require no attention from me.
If you use a MacBook at a desk, chances are you’ll also be connecting it to an external screen or peripherals, or even just power. If you do that you can make sure to include that backup disk in your device chain (either through extra ports or through a dock). Then you’re still plugging in just one cable, but you get your backup connected for free.
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I don’t quite understand how the end of bootable clones pushes people away from SD or CCC as some posters here appear to indicate. SD and CCC will continue to back up every single thing you need that is personal. The thing that changes is having to use installer and MA to recover, but just because SD and CCC no longer default create bootable clones, does not mean they don’t work just fine as a backup strategy against complete loss.
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The clone is on the same drive as one of my Time Machine’s, so it is always connected, but not mounted. I don’t have to do anything for the automatic weekly clone.
I could change to a daily clone – the source and destinations are both SSDs – but there’s a trade off here. One reason for a bootable backup is if something bad happens at a software level. If the bad thing happens and then you clone it, now you can’t use the backup to roll back.
I do refresh the backup when doing major updates though. And since I’m now restoring the icon positions in the Finder Applications and Utilities windows by copying.DS_Store files from this backup, I definitely refresh it immediately before applying a macOS update.
But anyway, the answer to your question is I grab recently updated files from Time Machine, and if not there, from the cloud (Arq). There’s not that many files, since my most important frequently updated files are in my Dropbox, such as my Quicken database.
I don’t think this takes longer than a migration restore. Case in point is that I just had to go through this a few months ago, as I’ve written before…
- My iMac froze and kernel panicked.
- I tried to reboot it, without success.
- I booted it in verbose mode, and saw mention in the tiny tiny text that there were I/O errors. From this I concluded that the iMac’s internal drive was toast. Which it was – the hard drive component of the Fusion drive is dead.
- I rebooted from the bootable backup, which was 1 day old (it backed up Thursday night, crash was on Friday evening.)
- It took me less than an hour to restore the other files.
Total time to get back up and running: let’s say an hour after I decided that there was no booting this drive.
Now let’s think about what I would have had to do if I didn’t have a bootable backup. Since the internal drive was dead, I’d need to find an external drive that was not in use. This is a serious point: do people who do not do bootable backups keep a spare external drive of sufficient size sitting around waiting for a disaster? I bet few people do.
Then I’d need to boot up the iMac in Recovery mode and install macOS on the external drive. I have had mixed success with this in the past. But for the purposes of discussion, let’s assume that I can do that part.
Then boot up on that drive, and do a migration from Time Machine. My experience in the past is that the Migration Assistant does an above average job, but it doesn’t set up everything the same way as before. So it takes a few days to get everything reconfigured again, software licensed, etc.
And, unfortunately, my Time Machine doesn’t have enough space to backup everything. (This is a decision; I know that what’s not on the Time Machine is on the other clones.) So I’d still have to find and restore the file not on the Time Machine. And even if the files are on the Time Machine, were they changed since the last Time Machine backup? Maybe the Arq version is newer. (I ran into a variation of this problem; Time Machine’s regular backups pushed the only hourly backup that had some files out of retention, so I had to get them from Arq.)
So, to me, all things considered, getting things going again from the bootable backup is absolutely faster, both in time from disaster until complete restoration, but also because the bootable backup gets you back up and running a lot faster.
I’m on Ventura on the iMac (can’t upgrade it) and Sonoma on my M2 MacBook Pro. I’m hoping that whatever’s broken in asr will be fixed by the time I upgrade to Sequoia, which won’t be for months.
I think this scenario may be disappearing into history. With an Apple silicon Mac, the internal storage must be functional to boot from an external drive, so you cannot find yourself in a situation where your internal drive is dead and the only way you can use the Mac is to boot from an external drive. If the internal drive is dead, the Mac is dead and must go back to Apple.
Of course, the other side of this is that solid-state storage is far less likely to fail than hard drives, so this kind of failure should be happening much less often than in the spinning disk days.
Given that I use my machine primarily for personal reasons, weekly SuperDuper! backups work well for me. if there is ever a need for recovery, the only things that would be out of sync somewhat are 1) my transaction history that I maintain with Quicken on both of my Macs for only one of our accounts, and 2) applications that were updated between my weekly backups.
I already stated my reasons why I store everything locally, and not on any kind of “cloud” service. To me, it is risky, and also I have little, if any, control over that storage.
Finally, given that I always do the backups on Saturday (when I am also doing other tasks (non-computer, ie, multi tasking)), no need to keep the SSDs plugged in all the time. It’s easy to remember to plug them in for the backups.
All of the above is what I follow for both of my Macs: a M1 Mac mini, and an M3 MacBook Air. Works very, very well for me.
Additionally, the site is no longer allowing me to post anything to that discussion. I actually have no need to become a member of Tidbits, but one would think someone like me can provide input/information, etc. that could be valuable. Case in point: my success in successfully making bootable SuperDuper! backups for each of my Macs by not using the DFU port for the backup. I can boot from those backups, though, using any port (including the DFU one). Can I be allowed to join/re-join the discussions?
Arthur Kent
Even in the scenario of needing to send a machine in for repair, I would still probably prefer a bootable backup – especially if this is a case where the machine was functional before the repair, so I can make a backup right before unplugging it.
My reasons are:
- When you clone back from a bootable backup, you know exactly what version of macOS you’re getting. In my experience, getting back a machine from repair never had the macOS I want, and trying to get it from Recovery isn’t easy. Either you can’t get that version of macOS at all, or if you can, you don’t know which magic combination of startup keys it takes until you’ve tried the wrong ones twice.
- When you clone back from a clone, you’re getting exactly the same data as was before. It is is the same machine. With migration, it is more like you have a new machine but now it is importing data into it. My experience is that the data clone works better.
- I’ve had a lot of distrust of Time Machine in the past, in fact I’ve worked with Apple on reproduceable cases where the Time Machine backup was incorrect. I think Time Machine has gotten a lot befter, but I still have that element of uncertainty… I know a data clone is exactly as the machine was when the clone started, but with Time Machine I’m not sure it will work.
- Time Machine has built-in exclusions, that suppress backup of more files than are on the clone.
- I have my own exclusions in Time Machine to keep the size under control. For example, I don’t backup the Outlook mail, because that can be re-synched from the server (like IMAP, but different). But, unfortunately, you can’t suppress Outlook mail without also suppressing other Outlook files; it doesn’t have the cache in a different folder than configuration and settings. So if I restore from Time Machine, I have more work to do to reconfigure. This is the same for other applications that I’m excluding. People who let Time Machine backup everything may not have this issue.
I would not use a clone to restore a new machine though. There I would use the migration assistant, but may use the data clone as the source.
I use a TM for archives and a non-bootable daily backup for recovery and migration. I also try to keep current with system updates (no more than one or two minor releases behind), and my Mac can obviously handle the current production OS. I also live within 5 miles of 2 Apple stores.
So, what’s my recovery plan if the startup drive in my Mac fails? I will use a Mac from a nearby Apple store as a loaner while I plot the exact Mac I wish to order. You can return equipment in good condition up to 14 days after purchase. Indeed, when I have brought Apple products in for repair, store employees have encouraged me to ‘purchase’ a replacement and return it when my repair was completed.
You need to read my post above about the success I am having on both of my Macs running OS 15.2 of Sequoia and SuperDuper! (do not know about CCC). To re-iterate, as long as one does NOT use the DFU port, one can successfully make bootable SuperDuper! backups to an external device. One can subsequently boot from the backup from any port, including the DFU one.
I hope that is (finally) clear. Would still like to hear from folks that are having success like me, and specifically with OS 15.2. Of course, OS 15.3 will be arriving soon, so not sure if this “DFU dependency” will be resolved.
Adam,
Please ignore the issue I state in the bottom of my prior EMail. I was able to just make a post within that discussion.
Two things I wish folks would do: 1) pay attention to posts make by others, and 2) those that are having success with SuperDuper! and OS 15.2 (like myself) to relay those experiences. Remember, the issue with OS 15,2 is one of the primary reasons why you began all this. For me, it has been educational. Also, David Nanian would appreciate such input from other “SuperDuper!” folks.
Arthur Kent
This would be better stated as “I can successfully make bootable SuperDuper! backups to an external device.” As we’ve discussed with Dave Nanian, it’s entirely unclear why this works for you but not for him, me, or many other people. You appear to be the exception, not the rule.
Regardless, I believe Apple will fix the bug soon enough and the entire issue will go away.
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Ok, but have you tried testing backing up to a blank SSD, to see if it will be bootable? Or is the drive’s ability to boot (after manually installing MacOS to it, as you described) merely unaffected by SuperDuper’s inability to create a bootable backup from scratch?
Okay, now I’m really confused about this whole discussion.
I have an M2 Pro Mini with 1TB internal storage, updated to OS 15.2.
As for my backup strategy I have:
- a 1 TB Samsung T5 for a scheduled SuperDuper! clone, plugged in to a port I’m assuming is not the DFU port because I believe that’s the one farthest to the left as you face the back of the Mini, and
- an older USB A 4TB HD with a 1TB partition used for a scheduled SD! clone and a 3TB partition for daily Time Machine backups.
- an even older USB A 1TB HD used for daily Time Machine backups, and finally,
- I use Arq to backup my critical data folders to Arq Cloud storage offsite.
For many, many years I used an SD! schedule to clone my sequence of Intel Macs to the T5 and HD and, of course, was able to boot from either backup, as well as the built in HD. I needed to resort to recovering using an SD! clone maybe once in decades, but I used it to upgrade machines by recloning the clone to the new machine. When I originally moved to the M2 Mini from an Intel iMac I used Migration Assistant and then had SD! clone the new machine to both the T5 and the HD on the same schedule, which it did and I could boot from them.
Over the last year or so I have not reinstalled/updated the OS on the T5 (and I can’t on the HD because it doesn’t appear as a startup disk), but SD! was happy to backup my data volume from the Mini to both the T5 and HD. According to System Settings > General > Startup Disk, the Mac OS on the T5 is Ventura 13.7.2. Curiously, the HD partition no longer appears in the list of startup disks, but it should have the same OS as the T5. When this discussion started I thought I’d see if the T5 would still boot the Mini. When I selected the T5 as the boot volume and tried to boot from it I was taken to a screen telling me I needed to reinstall the OS on the T5. I tried following the on screen recovery instructions to do this but the installation failed multiple times. I gave up trying, assuming this was somehow a symptom of the ‘end of bootable backups’ issue and I resigned myself to having scheduled non-bootable SD! backups of my data volume to the two drives.
Now @akent35 says he is able to boot from an SD! clone on Macs running 15.2 which is contrary to all the discussion and information I’ve seen from Shirt Pocket/SuperDuper!
Can anybody make sense of all this for me?
I don’t do bootable backups anymore…but I can pretty easily move the photo drive and Lightroom catalog to my laptop. And if it’s the laptop that died…I can easily use its Data backup to move OP’s to my Studio until I replace/fix whatever died.
Over the years I determined that once-daily TM backups and once-weekly SuperDuper! clones were sufficient for my needs. The worst case scenario is I lose one days work. That’s not a big loss for me–and one I am willing to accept.
The backup drive is connected and always powered on. SuperDuper! mounts it prior to cloning and dismounts it when finished.
I schedule my MacPro5,1 to wake up every night just prior to the daily TM backup. Once weekly, the SD clone runs shortly after TM is finished. It’s a hand-off operation.
You did not understand my posts. I can successfully run SuoerDuper! to make a bootable backup to a Samsung external 1 TB SSD for each of my Macs. In actuality, I let SuperDuper! first erase that portion of the SSD, then let it perform the backup. However, assuming the issue Adam raised last month is due to OS 15.2., I MUST use a non-DFU port on each machine in order for this to work. When completed, I can then boot he respective machine from the respective SuperDuper! backup from ANY port, including the DFU one. And I do not need to install OS 15.2 on the backup. SuperDuper! copies/replicates it just fine, along of course with all the other data/information.
Is that clear enough?
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Yes, that is the correct location for the DFU port (same as my M1 Mac Mini). For the new M4 Mac Minis, it is the middle one of the 3 Thunderbolt ports located on the back.
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It seems I am the exception to the “rule”. And David Nanian of Shirt Pocket Software is baffled also. He actually tried to use a non-DFU port on his M4 Mac Mini to do the SuperDuper! backup, but not able to then subsequently boot up from it. I of course have no clue why it works for me. For other folks, and in my case for using the DFU port, cannot say whether it’s an issue with OS 15.2, ?any? port, or the Samsung SSDs. Possibly one of them, or a combination of all 3.
I actually was thinking of “trading in” the M1 Mini at the Apple Store for an M4 Mini (can get a good amount for the M1 Mini), but with David not able to be successful with his M4 Mini, will hold off until a fix from Apple comes.
Of course my success is the same with my M3 MacBook Air. So who knows?
I can then boot the respective machine from the respective SuperDuper! backup
One question: Can you use a superduper backup to boot a machine other than the one from which it was made?
I have often wondered that myself. But there could be “items” on the backup that could cause issues when running the backup on another machine.