macOS High Sierra Public Beta

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macOS High Sierra Public Beta

Ryoichi Morita-4
macOS High Sierra Public Beta is now available for the bold and curious. 


Good luck to those who want to try it out. 

Ryoichi Morita



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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

@lbutlr
On Jun 29, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Ryoichi Morita <[hidden email]> wrote:
> macOS High Sierra Public Beta is now available for the bold and curious.
>
> http://osxdaily.com/2017/06/29/download-install-macos-high-sierra-public-beta/
>
> Good luck to those who want to try it out.

I hop on the beta trains pretty early and I do have a machine running 10.13 right now (this laptop, in fact).

I would say there is no real reason to run it if you don’t need to for development.

Of course, never install on your primary machine or any machine you rely on.

There’re many good reasons to run the iOS 11 beta, especially on an iPad, but again, don’t do it on any machine you depend on.

--
Apple broke AppleScripting signatures in Mail.app, so no random signatures.




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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

Al Varnell
In reply to this post by Ryoichi Morita-4
And if you do decide to try it out, please don't tell us anything about it here or even that you are running it as that will violate the NDA that you must agree to in advance.

Only information that was released by Apple at WWDC17 can be posted here.

-Al-

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 02:33 PM, Ryoichi Morita wrote:
macOS High Sierra Public Beta is now available for the bold and curious. 


Good luck to those who want to try it out. 



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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

@lbutlr
On 29 Jun 2017, at 16:23, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:
> And if you do decide to try it out, please don't tell us anything about it here or even that you are running it as that will violate the NDA that you must agree to in advance.

Apple has never enforced an NDA on untying having to do with the public betas, and there are hundreds, if not thousands of sites talking about them and hundreds of thousands of people on Farcebook and Twitter discussing them.

--
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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

Al Varnell
On Jun 29, 2017, at 5:13 PM, "@lbutlr" wrote:
> On 29 Jun 2017, at 16:23, Al Varnell wrote:
>> And if you do decide to try it out, please don't tell us anything about it here or even that you are running it as that will violate the NDA that you must agree to in advance.
>
> Apple has never enforced an NDA on untying having to do with the public betas, and there are hundreds, if not thousands of sites talking about them and hundreds of thousands of people on Farcebook and Twitter discussing them.

None of which apply to this list.Sent from Janet's iPad

-Al-
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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

Josh Centers
In reply to this post by Al Varnell
They haven’t enforced that NDA since Cook took over, if they ever did. TidBITS has ignored it for years. No one at Apple cares.

---
Josh Centers
Managing Editor - TidBITS
http://TidBITS.com
http://joshcenters.com
@jcenters

> On Jun 29, 2017, at 5:23 PM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> And if you do decide to try it out, please don't tell us anything about it here or even that you are running it as that will violate the NDA that you must agree to in advance.
>
> Only information that was released by Apple at WWDC17 can be posted here.




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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

Al Varnell
Well it's still be aggressively enforced on their Apple Support Community forum by the hosts there and I'm personally aware of a few users who were banned after repeated violations there.

I don't know to what degree Adam has enforced it here in the past, but he has said much the same as I did previously.

Regardless of whether Apple chooses to enforce it or not, I would hope that posters here stand by their word having agreed not to discuss it.

Since the forum is yours now, I guess you can change the rules as you see fit.

-Al-

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 09:53 PM, Josh Centers wrote:

>
> They haven’t enforced that NDA since Cook took over, if they ever did. TidBITS has ignored it for years. No one at Apple cares.
>
> ---
> Josh Centers
> Managing Editor - TidBITS
> http://TidBITS.com
> http://joshcenters.com
> @jcenters
>
>> On Jun 29, 2017, at 5:23 PM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> And if you do decide to try it out, please don't tell us anything about it here or even that you are running it as that will violate the NDA that you must agree to in advance.
>>
>> Only information that was released by Apple at WWDC17 can be posted here.



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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

adamengst
Administrator

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 1:37 AM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:
Well it's still be aggressively enforced on their Apple Support Community forum by the hosts there and I'm personally aware of a few users who were banned after repeated violations there.

That’s on Apple’s own site, so things will be different. All it takes is one Apple executive to say, “Don’t let people break the NDA” and the hosts will have to do, regardless of what every other site on the Internet does.
 
I don't know to what degree Adam has enforced it here in the past, but he has said much the same as I did previously.

Regardless of whether Apple chooses to enforce it or not, I would hope that posters here stand by their word having agreed not to discuss it.

We’ve been increasingly less concerned about the NDA because of the vast number of commercial publications that ignore it entirely with no consequences at all (except more traffic and improved reputation for providing useful information). If Apple is going to let everyone get away with ignoring the NDA, which they have now done for years, we just look like chumps for pretending it means anything at all.

Plus, no NDA can cover details that have been released in public, and since Apple makes all WWDC videos, which contains lots of specific technical details, available to anyone, there is vast amounts of information about these upcoming releases that anyone can get without agreeing to an NDA at all.

cheers... -Adam



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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

Curtis Wilcox
On Jun 30, 2017, at 9:19 AM, Adam Engst <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 1:37 AM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:

I don't know to what degree Adam has enforced it here in the past, but he has said much the same as I did previously.

Regardless of whether Apple chooses to enforce it or not, I would hope that posters here stand by their word having agreed not to discuss it.

We’ve been increasingly less concerned about the NDA because of the vast number of commercial publications that ignore it entirely with no consequences at all (except more traffic and improved reputation for providing useful information). If Apple is going to let everyone get away with ignoring the NDA, which they have now done for years, we just look like chumps for pretending it means anything at all.

Plus, no NDA can cover details that have been released in public, and since Apple makes all WWDC videos, which contains lots of specific technical details, available to anyone, there is vast amounts of information about these upcoming releases that anyone can get without agreeing to an NDA at all.

It's certainly been my impression that no one in the press has worried about NDAs on betas for a while (some can also protect themselves if it's a source violating the NDA, rather than staff). The very idea of an NDA on a *Public* Beta is nonsensical.

Nevertheless, breathless coverage of every beta detail is not something I'd look to TidBITS for and I don't think this list would be a good place for most beta-related discussions such as "is anyone else seeing this in beta version blah blah?" Articles looking ahead to future releases, such as today's article about HEVC and HEIF, *is* in TidBITS's wheelhouse but not really about the contents of betas. 

One exception would be articles or discussions of the pattern "when [feature X] was announced, there was some speculation about how it would be implemented. Beta version blah blah contains [relevant UI element Y] but it could still change before release." In an article, it would be just an aside and not a big discussion unless it tapped into broader issues (like simplicity vs. user control). I suppose this can sometimes grow into a "what you need to know before upgrading Z" story before an official release, particularly in cases where people might end up in a tough position if they blithely upgrade something that is hard to or impossible to revert. Such stories generally can also be written without direct knowledge of beta contents anyway.




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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

Mr. Seth Anderson

On Jun 30, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Curtis Wilcox <[hidden email]> wrote:

 I suppose this can sometimes grow into a "what you need to know before upgrading Z" story before an official release, particularly in cases where people might end up in a tough position if they blithely upgrade something that is hard to or impossible to revert. Such stories generally can also be written without direct knowledge of beta contents anyway.

This is what interests me. For example, as an owner of the curmudgeon-edition of Adobe Creative Suite 6 ( i.e., the last non-rental version) - will my workflow be impeded by the new OS, and if so, how do I best plan my adjustments? I do recall some discussion on TidBITS Talk a while back re: High Sierra “sunsetting” the Java file required to run Adobe CS6 (or whatever the technical details are). 


-Seth
Check out my new photoblog




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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

adamengst
Administrator
In reply to this post by Curtis Wilcox

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Curtis Wilcox <[hidden email]> wrote:
Nevertheless, breathless coverage of every beta detail is not something I'd look to TidBITS for and I don't think this list would be a good place for most beta-related discussions such as "is anyone else seeing this in beta version blah blah?" Articles looking ahead to future releases, such as today's article about HEVC and HEIF, *is* in TidBITS's wheelhouse but not really about the contents of betas. 

Yes, precisely. We don’t want to spend lots of time in TidBITS or TidBITS Talk discussing the minutiae of the releases, but it’s entirely reasonable to discuss what these new features will mean, and if that involves informing the discussion with a detail from one of the betas, so be it.

cheers... -Adam



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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

Marilyn Matty
In reply to this post by Mr. Seth Anderson

> On Jun 30, 2017, at 2:16 PM, Mr. Seth Anderson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This is what interests me. For example, as an owner of the curmudgeon-edition of Adobe Creative Suite 6 ( i.e., the last non-rental version) - will my workflow be impeded by the new OS, and if so, how do I best plan my adjustments? I do recall some discussion on TidBITS Talk a while back re: High Sierra “sunsetting” the Java file required to run Adobe CS6 (or whatever the technical details are).
>
>

I'm running CS5 on my 8 or 9 year old MacBook Pro. I've been thinking of replacing it in the next 2-3 months; the battery is swelling and I can't use the trackpad any more. CS 5 does everything I need, and I really don't want to shell out big bucks for a Creative Suite subscription though I do need Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign, Acrobat Pro and Dreamweaver. If they do sunset Java, and I can see why Apple would want to do this, will I be stuck between a rock and a hard place?

Marilyn



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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

Charles Hawkins
Watch out for the battery swelling!  That was happening to my 2008 MBP about this time last year, and I had no idea what was going on.  I had some health issues and ended up in the hospital.  By the time I was home and able to check out the MBP again (it was not my main computer!), it was dead.  Won’t boot, even w/o the battery but plugged into the power supply.

Not a great loss, given its age, but I was still getting good use out of it.

Chuck

On Jun 30, 2017, at 4:06 PM, Marilyn Matty <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Jun 30, 2017, at 2:16 PM, Mr. Seth Anderson <[hidden email]> wrote:

This is what interests me. For example, as an owner of the curmudgeon-edition of Adobe Creative Suite 6 ( i.e., the last non-rental version) - will my workflow be impeded by the new OS, and if so, how do I best plan my adjustments? I do recall some discussion on TidBITS Talk a while back re: High Sierra “sunsetting” the Java file required to run Adobe CS6 (or whatever the technical details are).



I'm running CS5 on my 8 or 9 year old MacBook Pro. I've been thinking of replacing it in the next 2-3 months; the battery is swelling and I can't use the trackpad any more. CS 5 does everything I need, and I really don't want to shell out big bucks for a Creative Suite subscription though I do need Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign, Acrobat Pro and Dreamweaver. If they do sunset Java, and I can see why Apple would want to do this, will I be stuck between a rock and a hard place?

Marilyn



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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

Al Varnell
In reply to this post by adamengst
On Jun 30, 2017, at 6:19 AM, Adam Engst  wrote:
> Plus, no NDA can cover details that have been released in public, and since Apple makes all WWDC videos, which contains lots of specific technical details, available to anyone, there is vast amounts of information about these upcoming releases that anyone can get without agreeing to an NDA at all.

Actually, the NDA was changed a few years back (I believe at the same time Public Beta's became available) to specifically exclude information made public at WWDC's or any other publicly available information coming directly from Apple. It is even easier to check as Apple has included searchable transcripts of WWDC17 sessions this year. Makes it easy for me to know what I can and cannot repeat in public forums.


Sent from Janet's iPad

-Al-
--
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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

Al Varnell
In reply to this post by Mr. Seth Anderson
On Jun 30, 2017, at 11:16 AM, "Mr. Seth Anderson" wrote:
> I do recall some discussion on TidBITS Talk a while back re: High Sierra “sunsetting” the Java file required to run Adobe CS6 (or whatever the technical details are).

I don't recall that specific discussion, but when it was announced during El Capitan rollout, most everybody assumed it would be with Sierra, which wasn't true, so it will undoubtedly be assumed to be the next OS every time until it happens. I would hope that Apple will tell the world before it actually happens, but as we all know, it doesn't always work that way.


Sent from Janet's iPad

-Al-
--
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Mountain View, CA


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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

John Baldauf
In reply to this post by Marilyn Matty

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 1:07 PM Marilyn Matty <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Jun 30, 2017, at 2:16 PM, Mr. Seth Anderson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This is what interests me. For example, as an owner of the curmudgeon-edition of Adobe Creative Suite 6 ( i.e., the last non-rental version) - will my workflow be impeded by the new OS, and if so, how do I best plan my adjustments? I do recall some discussion on TidBITS Talk a while back re: High Sierra “sunsetting” the Java file required to run Adobe CS6 (or whatever the technical details are).
>
>

I'm running CS5 on my 8 or 9 year old MacBook Pro. I've been thinking of replacing it in the next 2-3 months; the battery is swelling and I can't use the trackpad any more. CS 5 does everything I need, and I really don't want to shell out big bucks for a Creative Suite subscription though I do need Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign, Acrobat Pro and Dreamweaver. If they do sunset Java, and I can see why Apple would want to do this, will I be stuck between a rock and a hard place?

Marilyn

Just curious, would replacing battery solve swelling problem? I have seen replacements for late 2007 MacBooks. I am a newly recent user of a 2007 and am temporarily nursing it along with a laptop cooling pad. 

Please excuse me if have stated the obvious, etc. 

I really appreciate your discussions of Apple issues. I find them very helpful. 

John

--
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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

Mr. Seth Anderson
In reply to this post by Al Varnell

On Jun 30, 2017, at 6:45 PM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Jun 30, 2017, at 11:16 AM, "Mr. Seth Anderson" wrote:
I do recall some discussion on TidBITS Talk a while back re: High Sierra “sunsetting” the Java file required to run Adobe CS6 (or whatever the technical details are).

I don't recall that specific discussion, but when it was announced during El Capitan rollout, most everybody assumed it would be with Sierra, which wasn't true, so it will undoubtedly be assumed to be the next OS every time until it happens. I would hope that Apple will tell the world before it actually happens, but as we all know, it doesn't always work that way.


I trust that I am betraying no hidden secrets; when I first ran Photoshop (CS5, in fact) on my MacBookPro 2011 in High Sierra Beta, I was prompted to install the same legacy Java 6 runtime version as previous OS editions

Once I installed this, Photoshop ran seemingly fine.




-Seth Anderson
sursum vestri culus

often found at 

or





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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

John Robinson-3
Awesome, hope the situation stays same after beta.

Sent from JRs iPad Pro
Сделать Америку великой Снова

On Jul 1, 2017, at 11:37 PM, Mr. Seth Anderson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Jun 30, 2017, at 6:45 PM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Jun 30, 2017, at 11:16 AM, "Mr. Seth Anderson" wrote:
I do recall some discussion on TidBITS Talk a while back re: High Sierra “sunsetting” the Java file required to run Adobe CS6 (or whatever the technical details are).

I don't recall that specific discussion, but when it was announced during El Capitan rollout, most everybody assumed it would be with Sierra, which wasn't true, so it will undoubtedly be assumed to be the next OS every time until it happens. I would hope that Apple will tell the world before it actually happens, but as we all know, it doesn't always work that way.


I trust that I am betraying no hidden secrets; when I first ran Photoshop (CS5, in fact) on my MacBookPro 2011 in High Sierra Beta, I was prompted to install the same legacy Java 6 runtime version as previous OS editions

Once I installed this, Photoshop ran seemingly fine.




-Seth Anderson
sursum vestri culus

often found at 

or




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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

Roger D. Parish
In reply to this post by John Baldauf
I replaced the battery in my MacBook Pro (2012) when its swelling disabled the click of the touchpad. Easy job, now works like new. The battery was about four years old.

Roger D. Parish
Lovettsville, VA



> On Jun 30, 2017, at 9:07 PM, John Baldauf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> Just curious, would replacing battery solve swelling problem? I have seen replacements for late 2007 MacBooks. I am a newly recent user of a 2007 and am temporarily nursing it along with a laptop cooling pad.




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Re: macOS High Sierra Public Beta

@lbutlr
In reply to this post by Mr. Seth Anderson
On Jul 1, 2017, at 10:37 PM, Mr. Seth Anderson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I trust that I am betraying no hidden secrets; when I first ran Photoshop (CS5, in fact) on my MacBookPro 2011 in High Sierra Beta, I was prompted to install the same legacy Java 6 runtime version as previous OS editions
> <https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1572?locale=en_US>
>
> Once I installed this, Photoshop ran seemingly fine.

I believe for CS5 and CS6 the Java is only required for the installer.

Considering the ancient version of Java, I would not leave it installed if I didn’t have to.

--
Apple broke AppleScripting signatures in Mail.app, so no random signatures.




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