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draft emails

Norm Beazer
Just to explain the issue for me more fully – I am using Sierra, and POP for Mail.   Anything non-trivial I compose in Nisus Writer, and I then drop the result into Mail.  

Perhaps maybe I want to edit my Mail composition a little further, so I make some adjustments.  If I get interrupted and come back to Mail later, chances are that I will without realising start to edit a Draft that I hadn’t recognised is only a Draft (where did it suddenly spring from ?).  Sometimes I may end up with several drafts – all because I am sure Apple thinks users like me are completely dumb and we need to be “helped”.   

Complete confusion at my end – re-editing the “wrong” file when I had not realised where the heck I was in the Mail “system”.

I checked online, and many others seem to have the same embarrassment – but no solutions.   I really wish Apple would stop trying to be so obtusely “helpful” and let users make their own mistakes.  

The only solution I can see is to discipline myself never to edit in Mail – to delete my draft Mail document altogether and go back to Nisus Writer to make even trivial changes.  An absurd situation that Apple itself has created.

And there is no setting in Sierra that I can find that will stop this errant Apple behaviour.  

Does High Sierra truly overcome this ?

 






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Re: draft emails

Rodney

On Oct 8, 2017, at 21:47, Norm Beazer <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just to explain the issue for me more fully – I am using Sierra, and POP for Mail.   Anything non-trivial I compose in Nisus Writer, and I then drop the result into Mail.  

Perhaps maybe I want to edit my Mail composition a little further, so I make some adjustments.  If I get interrupted and come back to Mail later, chances are that I will without realising start to edit a Draft that I hadn’t recognised is only a Draft (where did it suddenly spring from ?).

I’m confused by that whole paragraph. What do you mean by “drop the result into Mail”? If you create a message in Mail, no matter how you create it, it is a draft. If it isn’t a draft, you can’t edit it. If you close Mail while you’re working on a message, the unfinished message will be saved in Drafts. I’d bet that most of us consider this to be a valuable feature.

Sometimes I may end up with several drafts – all because I am sure Apple thinks users like me are completely dumb and we need to be “helped”.

I think that you end up with several drafts because, for whatever reason, you’ve created them. The only help Apple is trying to give you is the ability to create messages. Apple assumes that you just might want to be working on more than one message at once, so they let you have more than one draft.

Complete confusion at my end – re-editing the “wrong” file when I had not realised where the heck I was in the Mail “system”.

Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see why that’s Apple’s fault.

I checked online, and many others seem to have the same embarrassment – but no solutions.   I really wish Apple would stop trying to be so obtusely “helpful” and let users make their own mistakes.

That seems to be what Apple has done in this case. I think that you’re just unhappy with the mistake they let you make…😀

The only solution I can see is to discipline myself never to edit in Mail – to delete my draft Mail document altogether and go back to Nisus Writer to make even trivial changes.  An absurd situation that Apple itself has created.

It seems to me that this is a situation you created by not wanting to edit your messages in Mail. However, if you want to blame someone else, blame Nisus Writer. If you look at most apps these days, even Safari, you’ll find somewhere on the toolbar a square with an arrow pointing upwards. You can click on that square, and you will see the ways that the app can export its content. There are many options, and Mail is usually one of them. If Nisus Writer doesn’t have this square with the arrow in it that will let you send via mail, then it is Nisus Writer who has created an absurd situation, and you might consider looking for a more modern editor.

And there is no setting in Sierra that I can find that will stop this errant Apple behaviour.

Unless I’ve misunderstood how you’re doing this, which is quite possible, it ain’t a bug, it’s a feature.




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Re: draft emails

Norm Beazer

Thank you Rodney for your input.

I’m confused by that whole paragraph. What do you mean by “drop the result into Mail”? If you create a message in Mail, no matter how you create it, it is a draft. If it isn’t a draft, you can’t edit it. If you close Mail while you’re working on a message, the unfinished message will be saved in Drafts. I’d bet that most of us consider this to be a valuable feature.

“Drop the result” = Copy.  Sorry if that wasn’t obvious.  

What happens if one Saves one’s work ? Do I end up in effect with two copies ?  OK, I can check this out for myself.

But creating a draft copy is relatively new (since Yosemite, or earlier ? ).  At least I don’t recall having had this issue before Yosemite.  With respect – I don’t regard creating multiple drafts as a feature at all.   

It seems to me that this is a situation you created by not wanting to edit your messages in Mail. However, if you want to blame someone else, blame Nisus Writer . . .

Editing in Mail is very limited.  It hardly qualifies even as an adequate text editor, IMO.  If one wishes to format one’s text, then one needs to use something else, such as  Nisus Writer (which qualifies as “modern” enough, for me).

Unless I’ve misunderstood how you’re doing this, which is quite possible, it ain’t a bug, it’s a feature.

Yes, I understand this.  It is just not my way of working, however “modern” the feature may be.  As I mentioned, I seem to be not the only one who doesn’t dig the whole idea of draft document copies.  Simply saving one’s work, allowing one to work with just the one document (no extra draft copies floating around) is the way I have always remembered working.

Thanks again for your comments.  









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Re: draft emails

Norm Beazer
In reply to this post by Norm Beazer
Sorry, I failed to get my previous response formatted correctly


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Re: draft emails

Rodney
In reply to this post by Norm Beazer

On Oct 9, 2017, at 01:35, Norm Beazer <[hidden email]> wrote:

“Drop the result” = Copy.  Sorry if that wasn’t obvious.

No, it wasn’t obvious. Now, what do you mean by “Copy”? Do you create a blank message, then drop the text into it?

What happens if one Saves one’s work ? Do I end up in effect with two copies ?

You end up with a draft every time you create a new message. This is true whether or not you paste the same text into the new message and give it the same subject line. This is true even if you reply to a message that you’d previously started replying to but hadn’t sent; each reply is a new message.

OK, I can check this out for myself.

Yep…

But creating a draft copy is relatively new (since Yosemite, or earlier ? ).  At least I don’t recall having had this issue before Yosemite.

I started using a Mac as my primary computer in 2008, and IIRC, Mail has always created messages in a “Drafts” folder, and they stayed there until I sent them.

With respect – I don’t regard creating multiple drafts as a feature at all.

And how is Mail supposed to know you’ve created multiple drafts? There might be legitimate reasons for someone wanting to edit multiple versions of the same message. You complained about Apple not letting you make mistakes, but Apple is letting you make this one.

Editing in Mail is very limited.  It hardly qualifies even as an adequate text editor, IMO.  If one wishes to format one’s text, then one needs to use something else, such as  Nisus Writer (which qualifies as “modern” enough, for me).

Fine, but if Nesus Writer won’t let you send the mail that you’ve edited, then the problem seems to me to be with Nesus Writer, or in your choice of email editor.

Unless I’ve misunderstood how you’re doing this, which is quite possible, it ain’t a bug, it’s a feature.

Yes, I understand this.  It is just not my way of working, however “modern” the feature may be.

And you’re blaming Apple for not supporting your way of working? It seems to me that you’re getting the cart before the horse. Start by deciding how you want to work, then choose the tools that let you work that way. Don’t complain that the tools you’ve already chosen don’t let you work the way you want to.

As I mentioned, I seem to be not the only one who doesn’t dig the whole idea of draft document copies.

There are those who don’t dig the whole idea that the earth is round. I think that they are in the minority, and that NASA doesn’t need to worry about them until they’re elected to high office. Oh, wait, never mind...😞

I’m not so sure that you’re getting draft document copies. You’re getting a draft original for every message you create, and that draft stays in the “Drafts” folder until you send it or delete it, and that’s as it should be. It is irrelevant, from Mail’s perspective, whether or not there are other drafts in the folder that look like it.

I will sometimes start a message, get interrupted, and later forget that I’d started the message and start a new one. I’ll later find the first message I started in the Drafts folder. I chalk it up to a “senior moment” and don’t blame Apple for it.

Simply saving one’s work, allowing one to work with just the one document (no extra draft copies floating around) is the way I have always remembered working.

As I recall, it has been possible, for the past 10 years anyhow, to work on more than one draft at the same time, and I’ve often found this feature useful. These aren’t “extra copies”, at least from Mail’s perspective. You created them, so Mail will keep them until you decide what you want to do with them.

The only thing I’ve noticed that has changed is that apps such as Mail (and Numbers and Microsoft Word) have become more robust. They’ll save your work by default (in Mail’s case, they’ll save it in the Drafts folder) in the event of a crash, reboot, you close the app, whatever, so you can pick back up where you left off later. If later, you can’t remember where you left off, then perhaps this is your “senior moment”. 😀



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