What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

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What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

"John Turner the Bear😎"
Hi Gang!
 
My 2011 Mac mini died two days ago. The motherboard was fried. Just my luck having just installed a new  SSD drive and doubling the RAM.
 
Anyway, on the 17th I will be recieving a new 27" iMac with an SSD drive. The problem is that I have a Time Machine backup on a Traditional Disk Drive with the new beta OS on it. When I installed it on my old mini with the SSD drive the installer formatted the drive according to the new specs, it gave me no choice. Of course the Time Machine drive would not format that way, so it is journaled.
 
When my new iMac arrives if I install everything using the Recovery Mode, will it work? I'm unsure because the Time Machine Backup does not have the format that was required for the installation on the SSD drive. I'm sure that my docs, and art work will come through but will the OS the apps etc?
 
Any ideas would be more than welcome!
 
Thanks folks!
 
Bear😎



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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

Curtis Wilcox
On Aug 6, 2017, at 12:57 PM, John Turner the Bear😎 <[hidden email]> wrote:

Anyway, on the 17th I will be recieving a new 27" iMac with an SSD drive. The problem is that I have a Time Machine backup on a Traditional Disk Drive with the new beta OS on it. When I installed it on my old mini with the SSD drive the installer formatted the drive according to the new specs, it gave me no choice. Of course the Time Machine drive would not format that way, so it is journaled.
 
When my new iMac arrives if I install everything using the Recovery Mode, will it work? I'm unsure because the Time Machine Backup does not have the format that was required for the installation on the SSD drive. I'm sure that my docs, and art work will come through but will the OS the apps etc?

You installed the beta High Sierra on your mini so your latest backups in Time Machine contains High Sierra files. The drive format (APFS vs. HFS+) doesn't matter because Time Machine is a file-level backup.

When the new iMac arrives, create an account with a short name unlike any accounts in intent to migration. Use Migration Assistant to import user accounts, applications (but not ones already on the iMac), and settings from Time Machine, the OS will remain as what shipped on the iMac, macOS Sierra. If bundled applications like Mail.app or Photos.app were changed substantially in the beta, maybe you will have problems but I don't see how you can avoid that now (I don't actually know what's included in the betas).

I wouldn't mess with a beta OS on my main computer.




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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

Rodney

> On Aug 6, 2017, at 20:00, Curtis Wilcox <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If bundled applications like Mail.app or Photos.app were changed substantially in the beta, maybe you will have problems but I don't see how you can avoid that now (I don't actually know what's included in the betas).

If your mail is IMAP, then instead of restoring from Time Machine I'd just recreate the account(s) from scratch and let Mail download everything again. The same for Photos if you use the cloud version.



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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

Al Varnell
In reply to this post by "John Turner the Bear😎"
Under no circumstances should you make any attempt to convert your Time Machine HDD volume to the new format, at least for now. It must remain in HFS+ format, preferably Journaled and not case-sensitive.

Sent from Janet's iPad
-Al-
-- 
Al Varnell
Mountain View, CA

On Aug 6, 2017, at 9:57 AM, "John Turner the Bear😎" wrote:
Hi Gang!
 
My 2011 Mac mini died two days ago. The motherboard was fried. Just my luck having just installed a new  SSD drive and doubling the RAM.
 
Anyway, on the 17th I will be recieving a new 27" iMac with an SSD drive. The problem is that I have a Time Machine backup on a Traditional Disk Drive with the new beta OS on it. When I installed it on my old mini with the SSD drive the installer formatted the drive according to the new specs, it gave me no choice. Of course the Time Machine drive would not format that way, so it is journaled.
 
When my new iMac arrives if I install everything using the Recovery Mode, will it work? I'm unsure because the Time Machine Backup does not have the format that was required for the installation on the SSD drive. I'm sure that my docs, and art work will come through but will the OS the apps etc?
 
Any ideas would be more than welcome!
 
Thanks folks!
 
Bear



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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

"John Turner the Bear😎"
I agree with that Al! My real question is, will the Time Machine backup be able to activate the new SSD Drive on my new iMac correctly? When I originally installed the perspective new OS the installer required that the SSD drive be reformatted to the new file format. Therefore I am unsure if the Time Machine will correctly install on my new Mac. I could just be dense and not clearly understanding how the reinstall works.
 
Bear
 
 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 at 6:50 PM
From: "Al Varnell" <[hidden email]>
To: "TidBITS Talk" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?
Under no circumstances should you make any attempt to convert your Time Machine HDD volume to the new format, at least for now. It must remain in HFS+ format, preferably Journaled and not case-sensitive.

Sent from Janet's iPad
-Al-
-- 
Al Varnell
Mountain View, CA

On Aug 6, 2017, at 9:57 AM, "John Turner the Bear😎" wrote:
 
Hi Gang!
 
My 2011 Mac mini died two days ago. The motherboard was fried. Just my luck having just installed a new  SSD drive and doubling the RAM.
 
Anyway, on the 17th I will be recieving a new 27" iMac with an SSD drive. The problem is that I have a Time Machine backup on a Traditional Disk Drive with the new beta OS on it. When I installed it on my old mini with the SSD drive the installer formatted the drive according to the new specs, it gave me no choice. Of course the Time Machine drive would not format that way, so it is journaled.
 
When my new iMac arrives if I install everything using the Recovery Mode, will it work? I'm unsure because the Time Machine Backup does not have the format that was required for the installation on the SSD drive. I'm sure that my docs, and art work will come through but will the OS the apps etc?
 
Any ideas would be more than welcome!
 
Thanks folks!
 
Bear
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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

"John Turner the Bear😎"
In reply to this post by Rodney
Thanks Rodney! We will all know what's what later next week. It is a new adventure for me. I do think that what I could do is to download the new possible OS again, reinstall it, and then use the Migration App to move my other apps, file etc from the Time Machine. I will do that if all else fails.
 
Bear
 
 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 at 2:58 PM
From: Rodney <[hidden email]>
To: "TidBITS Talk" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

> On Aug 6, 2017, at 20:00, Curtis Wilcox <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If bundled applications like Mail.app or Photos.app were changed substantially in the beta, maybe you will have problems but I don't see how you can avoid that now (I don't actually know what's included in the betas).

If your mail is IMAP, then instead of restoring from Time Machine I'd just recreate the account(s) from scratch and let Mail download everything again. The same for Photos if you use the cloud version.



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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

Curtis Wilcox
In reply to this post by "John Turner the Bear😎"
Restoring files from Time Machine does not work like that, it does not back up whole drive volumes, format and all. It doesn't matter what format any of the drives are, the original backed-up drive, the Time Machine drive, or the new iMac's drive, what you will be restoring are specific files. 

Do not try to use Time Machine to restore the entire backed-up drive. Use Migration Assistant.app but be selective, maybe don't even try to restore everything all at once, you can first restore just the users then later restore select applications.

On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:09 AM, John Turner the Bear😎 <[hidden email]> wrote:

I agree with that Al! My real question is, will the Time Machine backup be able to activate the new SSD Drive on my new iMac correctly? When I originally installed the perspective new OS the installer required that the SSD drive be reformatted to the new file format. Therefore I am unsure if the Time Machine will correctly install on my new Mac. I could just be dense and not clearly understanding how the reinstall works.
 
Bear
 
 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 at 6:50 PM
From: "Al Varnell" <[hidden email]>
To: "TidBITS Talk" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?
Under no circumstances should you make any attempt to convert your Time Machine HDD volume to the new format, at least for now. It must remain in HFS+ format, preferably Journaled and not case-sensitive.

Sent from Janet's iPad
-Al-
-- 
Al Varnell
Mountain View, CA

On Aug 6, 2017, at 9:57 AM, "John Turner the Bear😎" wrote:
 
Hi Gang!
 
My 2011 Mac mini died two days ago. The motherboard was fried. Just my luck having just installed a new  SSD drive and doubling the RAM.
 
Anyway, on the 17th I will be recieving a new 27" iMac with an SSD drive. The problem is that I have a Time Machine backup on a Traditional Disk Drive with the new beta OS on it. When I installed it on my old mini with the SSD drive the installer formatted the drive according to the new specs, it gave me no choice. Of course the Time Machine drive would not format that way, so it is journaled.
 
When my new iMac arrives if I install everything using the Recovery Mode, will it work? I'm unsure because the Time Machine Backup does not have the format that was required for the installation on the SSD drive. I'm sure that my docs, and art work will come through but will the OS the apps etc?
 
Any ideas would be more than welcome!
 
Thanks folks!
 
Bear
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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

Vince Winterling

Hello Curtis

 

May I ask the rationale for your recommendation for selective backup? The High Sierra beta? The new format of the drive?

-- 

Vincent Winterling

Vineland, NJ

 

On 8/7/17, 11:36 AM, "[hidden email] on behalf of Curtis Wilcox" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

 

Restoring files from Time Machine does not work like that, it does not back up whole drive volumes, format and all. It doesn't matter what format any of the drives are, the original backed-up drive, the Time Machine drive, or the new iMac's drive, what you will be restoring are specific files. 

 

Do not try to use Time Machine to restore the entire backed-up drive. Use Migration Assistant.app but be selective, maybe don't even try to restore everything all at once, you can first restore just the users then later restore select applications.

 

 




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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

Al Varnell
In reply to this post by "John Turner the Bear😎"
I didn't respond to that because I have not personally attempted what you are proposing so didn't want to mislead you, but will say that I've never been able to use Time Machine to migrate from a newer OS to an older one, so despite what others have said I suspect that the Migration Assistant will tell you it cannot migrate anything from your TM volume. This has nothing to do with the new file format, it's just that is not backward compatible.

As others have told you, attempting to use your Time Machine volume as if it were a clone is a non-starter. It does not contain everything you need to re-create your old hard drive.

As I see it, your only choice is to install the beta utility on your new Mac, install the current beta then you should be able to access and restore those files you need from Time Machine.

-Al-

On Mon, Aug 07, 2017 at 06:09 AM, John Turner the Bear😎 wrote:
> I agree with that Al! My real question is, will the Time Machine backup be able to activate the new SSD Drive on my new iMac correctly? When I originally installed the perspective new OS the installer required that the SSD drive be reformatted to the new file format. Therefore I am unsure if the Time Machine will correctly install on my new Mac. I could just be dense and not clearly understanding how the reinstall works.
>  
> Bear
>  
>> Under no circumstances should you make any attempt to convert your Time Machine HDD volume to the new format, at least for now. It must remain in HFS+ format, preferably Journaled and not case-sensitive.
>>
>> Sent from Janet's iPad
>> -Al-






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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

"John Turner the Bear😎"
That's pretty much what I figured I would have to do. It is going to be a very long day and night on the 17th that's all I can say. I am really excited though! A new iMac with a 27" 5k monitor! Yahoooooooo!
 
Bear
 
 
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2017 at 6:10 PM
From: "Al Varnell" <[hidden email]>
To: "TidBITS Talk" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?
I didn't respond to that because I have not personally attempted what you are proposing so didn't want to mislead you, but will say that I've never been able to use Time Machine to migrate from a newer OS to an older one, so despite what others have said I suspect that the Migration Assistant will tell you it cannot migrate anything from your TM volume. This has nothing to do with the new file format, it's just that is not backward compatible.

As others have told you, attempting to use your Time Machine volume as if it were a clone is a non-starter. It does not contain everything you need to re-create your old hard drive.

As I see it, your only choice is to install the beta utility on your new Mac, install the current beta then you should be able to access and restore those files you need from Time Machine.

-Al-

On Mon, Aug 07, 2017 at 06:09 AM, John Turner the Bear😎 wrote:
> I agree with that Al! My real question is, will the Time Machine backup be able to activate the new SSD Drive on my new iMac correctly? When I originally installed the perspective new OS the installer required that the SSD drive be reformatted to the new file format. Therefore I am unsure if the Time Machine will correctly install on my new Mac. I could just be dense and not clearly understanding how the reinstall works.
>
> Bear
>
>> Under no circumstances should you make any attempt to convert your Time Machine HDD volume to the new format, at least for now. It must remain in HFS+ format, preferably Journaled and not case-sensitive.
>>
>> Sent from Janet's iPad
>> -Al-





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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

"John Turner the Bear😎"
In reply to this post by Vince Winterling
High Sierra at this moment requires that you let it reformat the SSD drive to the new format that comes with High Sierra. There was no option to decline. No selective backup was done. Time Machine on a Traditional Hard Drive remains in a Journaled Format. My only question earlier was would the Time Machine Backup when installed on the SSD drive would it cause the SSD drive on my new Mac to be formatted according to High Sierra requirements.
 
I tried as a couple of others did in the Apple Community, were told that if we kept talking about High Sierra and asking for assistance we could face legal action! It astonishes me that there is not a private community established in the Apple Community so that  testers could talk to Apple and advisors etc about problems and work arounds that we have discovered or encountered. Such a site would be to Apple's advantage because they could get more info to improve the new OS, reduce frustration in the testers, and in the end to produce a better product that would in the end make Apple more money, Then again what do I know? All I can say it that the Report App that comes with Apple's betas will get you no response period.
 
Bear
 
 
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2017 at 12:08 PM
From: "Vince Winterling" <[hidden email]>
To: "TidBITS Talk" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

Hello Curtis

 

May I ask the rationale for your recommendation for selective backup? The High Sierra beta? The new format of the drive?

-- 

Vincent Winterling

Vineland, NJ

 

On 8/7/17, 11:36 AM, "[hidden email] on behalf of Curtis Wilcox" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

 

Restoring files from Time Machine does not work like that, it does not back up whole drive volumes, format and all. It doesn't matter what format any of the drives are, the original backed-up drive, the Time Machine drive, or the new iMac's drive, what you will be restoring are specific files. 

 

Do not try to use Time Machine to restore the entire backed-up drive. Use Migration Assistant.app but be selective, maybe don't even try to restore everything all at once, you can first restore just the users then later restore select applications.

 

 

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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

Curtis Wilcox
In reply to this post by Vince Winterling
Not trying to restore beta High Sierra versions of applications was definitely top of mind but in general I'm iffy on using Migration Assistant for anything other than user accounts. Migration doesn't work with all applications and it's an opportunity to consider whether to even have some of them installed.

Drive format has nothing to do with it, it's completely irrelevant to Time Machine backups and restores.


On Aug 7, 2017, at 12:08 PM, Vince Winterling <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Curtis

 

May I ask the rationale for your recommendation for selective backup? The High Sierra beta? The new format of the drive?

-- 

Vincent Winterling

Vineland, NJ





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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

Ryoichi Morita-4
In reply to this post by "John Turner the Bear😎"

On Aug 7, 2017, at 5:01 PM, John Turner the Bear😎 <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
I tried as a couple of others did in the Apple Community, were told that if we kept talking about High Sierra and asking for assistance we could face legal action! 

Is this Apple Community based in China or something? Is the person that told you that a lawyer working for Apple? Apple has better things to do. I think it’s best to ignore such bogus threats. 

Ryoichi Morita



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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

Al Varnell
The Apple Community Support Forum is world-wide, administered by Apple by hosts who are probably based in Cupertino, but could be most anywhere. The "hosts" are not lawyers, but have been under strict orders to monitor and censor such discussions from even before the days of Public Betas. 

Although I doubt that Apple would actually pursue legal action for such infractions (and I have never heard that they have for such issues), I would be more concerned that my beta access would be revoked, which would make life even more difficult for the OP who will undoubtedly need continuing access to solve his current problem.

-Al-

On Mon, Aug 07, 2017 at 08:21 PM, Ryoichi Morita wrote:

On Aug 7, 2017, at 5:01 PM, John Turner the Bear😎 <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
I tried as a couple of others did in the Apple Community, were told that if we kept talking about High Sierra and asking for assistance we could face legal action! 

Is this Apple Community based in China or something? Is the person that told you that a lawyer working for Apple? Apple has better things to do. I think it’s best to ignore such bogus threats. 

Ryoichi Morita



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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

@lbutlr
In reply to this post by Ryoichi Morita-4
On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:21 PM, Ryoichi Morita <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Aug 7, 2017, at 5:01 PM, John Turner the Bear😎 <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I tried as a couple of others did in the Apple Community, were told that if we kept talking about High Sierra and asking for assistance we could face legal action!
>
> Is this Apple Community based in China or something? Is the person that told you that a lawyer working for Apple? Apple has better things to do. I think it’s best to ignore such bogus threats.

Entirely bogus since everything (??) from WWDC is available for public viewing and everything else (like newest beta changes) are publicly reported all over the web.


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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

@lbutlr
In reply to this post by Al Varnell
On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The Apple Community Support Forum is world-wide, administered by Apple by hosts who are probably based in Cupertino, but could be most anywhere.

No Apple employees admin the forums. You are running ito a net cop who wants to feel like s/he is in control.

> Although I doubt that Apple would actually pursue legal action for such infractions (and I have never heard that they have for such issues), I would be more concerned that my beta access would be revoked, which would make life even more difficult for the OP who will undoubtedly need continuing access to solve his current problem.

Read the NDA, it does not apply to anything made public, which currently includes *everything* about 10.3 betas and 11.0 betas and even the firmware for unreleased products.

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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

Vince Winterling
I do beg to quibble a bit with your comment regarding the ASC and their willingness to entertain High Sierra discussions. In my experience monitoring the Sierra list this past year or so, there is no regular contributor from the ASC team that will speak to High Sierra and will refer to the NDA a poster committed to as a condition of their participation in the program. As Al V. suggested earlier in the thread, is a promise no longer a promise in today’s world?

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Vincent Winterling
Vineland, NJ

On 8/8/17, 8:59 AM, "[hidden email] on behalf of @lbutlr" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

    On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:
    > The Apple Community Support Forum is world-wide, administered by Apple by hosts who are probably based in Cupertino, but could be most anywhere.
   
    No Apple employees admin the forums. You are running ito a net cop who wants to feel like s/he is in control.
   
    > Although I doubt that Apple would actually pursue legal action for such infractions (and I have never heard that they have for such issues), I would be more concerned that my beta access would be revoked, which would make life even more difficult for the OP who will undoubtedly need continuing access to solve his current problem.
   
    Read the NDA, it does not apply to anything made public, which currently includes *everything* about 10.3 betas and 11.0 betas and even the firmware for unreleased products.
   
   





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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

Alexander Forbes

On Aug 8, 2017, at 7:38 AM, Vince Winterling <[hidden email]> wrote:

I do beg to quibble a bit with your comment regarding the ASC and their willingness to entertain High Sierra discussions. In my experience monitoring the Sierra list this past year or so, there is no regular contributor from the ASC team that will speak to High Sierra and will refer to the NDA a poster committed to as a condition of their participation in the program. As Al V. suggested earlier in the thread, is a promise no longer a promise in today’s world?

I do agree 100%. Further, these extended discussions of bad code and pitfalls in the Beta versions only serve, for most of us, to fuel fears that we should not install the final release right away. Those then fuel still more extended anticipatory speculation on procedures and workarounds in the public final cut release to handle bugs and pitfalls that may or may not appear in the public release.

Alex




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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

"John Turner the Bear😎"
In reply to this post by @lbutlr
I agree completely!
 
Bear😎
 
 
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 at 8:54 AM
From: "@lbutlr" <[hidden email]>
To: "TidBITS Talk" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?
On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:21 PM, Ryoichi Morita <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Aug 7, 2017, at 5:01 PM, John Turner the Bear😎 <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I tried as a couple of others did in the Apple Community, were told that if we kept talking about High Sierra and asking for assistance we could face legal action!
>
> Is this Apple Community based in China or something? Is the person that told you that a lawyer working for Apple? Apple has better things to do. I think it’s best to ignore such bogus threats.

Entirely bogus since everything (??) from WWDC is available for public viewing and everything else (like newest beta changes) are publicly reported all over the web.


--
Apple broke AppleScripting signatures in Mail.app, so no random signatures.




____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
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Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?

"John Turner the Bear😎"
In reply to this post by Vince Winterling
What about Apple's response to those who help them out and assume the risks of testing...like losing data, apps being broken etc? You know it is a two way street, you help them and they should help you help them. Hell, even Microsoft will respond if you are testing a beta for them and you run into a problem! Apple to this point has not responded to any request for help other than threatening or sending out a big dog to dress us down about the CONTRACT. If Apple wants to ban me, if Tidbits wants to ban me fine and well! But those of us who take risks for the rest of you non-testers deserve some basic consideration when it comes to rescuing our drives or apps or docs that get in trouble. We all realize that Apple takes no responsibility, financial or otherwise. But a bit of response now and then would be reasonable.
 
Bear
 
 
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 at 10:38 AM
From: "Vince Winterling" <[hidden email]>
To: "TidBITS Talk" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: What is the best way to install OS and files etc. on a new Mac?
I do beg to quibble a bit with your comment regarding the ASC and their willingness to entertain High Sierra discussions. In my experience monitoring the Sierra list this past year or so, there is no regular contributor from the ASC team that will speak to High Sierra and will refer to the NDA a poster committed to as a condition of their participation in the program. As Al V. suggested earlier in the thread, is a promise no longer a promise in today’s world?

--
Vincent Winterling
Vineland, NJ

On 8/8/17, 8:59 AM, "[hidden email] on behalf of @lbutlr" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The Apple Community Support Forum is world-wide, administered by Apple by hosts who are probably based in Cupertino, but could be most anywhere.

No Apple employees admin the forums. You are running ito a net cop who wants to feel like s/he is in control.

> Although I doubt that Apple would actually pursue legal action for such infractions (and I have never heard that they have for such issues), I would be more concerned that my beta access would be revoked, which would make life even more difficult for the OP who will undoubtedly need continuing access to solve his current problem.

Read the NDA, it does not apply to anything made public, which currently includes *everything* about 10.3 betas and 11.0 betas and even the firmware for unreleased products.







____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
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