Urgent help needed --migrate from newer to older OS?

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Urgent help needed --migrate from newer to older OS?

David Brostoff-2
My MacBook Pro Late 2011 17-inch (10.12.5, SSD) suddenly has the vertical lines symptoms described here: <https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/help-vertical-lines-on-screen-on-startup>.

This is happening right in the middle of several crunch deadlines -- the worst possible time.

I have tried resetting the NVRAM but there is no change. This machine has previously been repaired twice before when there were similar symptoms.

My backup machine is a Mid 2009 17-inch (10.11.6, SSD) that can't run an OS past 10.11 (and I don't want to risk trying a workaround for that right now).

In the past, I have been able to put the MBP 2011 SSD into an external drive and migrate from that to the MBP 2009, but that was when both computers were both running the same OS.

Can I migrate from the 10.12.5 drive to the computer running 10.11.6?

Otherwise, the one thing I really need is Mail. If it comes to transferring Mail files manually, which ones do I need to copy?

Thank you,

David


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Re: Urgent help needed --migrate from newer to older OS?

David Brostoff-2
>From: BROSTOFF DAVID <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Jun 12, 2017 10:11 PM
>To: TidBITS Talk <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Urgent help needed --migrate from newer to older OS?
>
>Otherwise, the one thing I really need is Mail. If it comes to transferring Mail files manually, which ones do I need to copy?

P.S. The reason I want to migrate Mail is because I have all POP, not IMAP, accounts.

David


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Re: Urgent help needed --migrate from newer to older OS?

Al Varnell
In reply to this post by David Brostoff-2
On Jun 12, 2017, at 10:11 PM, BROSTOFF DAVID  wrote:

> Can I migrate from the 10.12.5 drive to the computer running 10.11.6?

I haven't read of anybody trying such a thing, but I know it has not been possible in the past to migrate from higher to lower.

To migrate your e-mail, you will need to export each POP mailbox and then import them into the 10.11.6 computer.

Then convert any accounts that are eligible to IMAP so you never have to worry about this again. POP is deprecated technology and probably won't be supported forever.


Sent from Janet's iPad

-Al-
--
Al Varnell
Mountain View, CA


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Re: Urgent help needed --migrate from newer to older OS?

David Brostoff-2
In reply to this post by David Brostoff-2
>From: Al Varnell <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Jun 12, 2017 11:41 PM
>To: TidBITS Talk <[hidden email]>
>
>I haven't read of anybody trying such a thing, but I know it has not been possible in the past to migrate from higher to lower.
>
>To migrate your e-mail, you will need to export each POP mailbox and then import them into the 10.11.6 computer.
>
>Then convert any accounts that are eligible to IMAP so you never have to worry about this again. POP is deprecated technology and probably won't be supported forever.

Thank you for at least confirming that it can't be done. The problem with exporting the mailboxes is that I don't have a working computer I can boot from a 10.12 clone.

My workaround would be to use the 10.11 computer for now (it has all my applications) and later export any new mail from there.

That would require a new computer eventually anyway though, so tomorrow morning I'm going to the Apple Store and getting a new MBP. Very tight timing but I think it will be the easiest solution.

Thank you also for the advice about IMAP. I have resisted until now because I have read about so many problems with it and it seemed easier to stick with what I have, but I understand the usefulness too.

David

 



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Re: Urgent help needed --migrate from newer to older OS?

Al Varnell

On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 12:40 AM, BROSTOFF DAVID wrote:
>
> Thank you also for the advice about IMAP. I have resisted until now because I have read about so many problems with it and it seemed easier to stick with what I have, but I understand the usefulness too.

You will never hear from those that have never had a problem with IMAP (such as myself). Only people who have issues write about them. In todays world of multiple computers and iDevices, I mostly read about users trying to keep POP mail straight.

-Al-
--
Al Varnell
Mountain View, CA







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Re: Urgent help needed --migrate from newer to older OS?

Alexander Forbes
On Jun 13, 2017, at 1:20 AM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 12:40 AM, BROSTOFF DAVID wrote:
>>
>> Thank you also for the advice about IMAP. I have resisted until now because I have read about so many problems with it and it seemed easier to stick with what I have, but I understand the usefulness too.
>
> You will never hear from those that have never had a problem with IMAP (such as myself). Only people who have issues write about them. In todays world of multiple computers and iDevices, I mostly read about users trying to keep POP mail straight.
>


On good advice from readers in this TidBITS thread, I converted to IMAP years ago. I’ve never had a problem since, at different locations and on several different devices and desktops, with keeping Mail in perfect sync.

I don’t know if this applies to the particular problem prompting this thread, but I’ve also read here that problems DO arise from any mix of  IMAP and POP on a user machine, account or mail server.

Alex


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Re: Urgent help needed --migrate from newer to older OS?

Fritz Mills
In reply to this post by David Brostoff-2

> On Jun 13, 2017, at 12:11 AM, BROSTOFF DAVID <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> My MacBook Pro Late 2011 17-inch (10.12.5, SSD) suddenly has the vertical lines symptoms described here: <https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/help-vertical-lines-on-screen-on-startup>.
>

There might be a secret warranty that covers your machine. I have a 15” late 2011 and when I last took it in for a problem (in January) they tested it to see if I qualified for the secret warranty. It turns out that the Intel video card on the motherboard had high defective rates. You should take it to an Apple store.




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Re: Urgent help needed --migrate from newer to older OS?

Jeffrey Jones-2
On Jun 13, 2017, at 3:41 PM, Fritz Mills <[hidden email]> wrote:

There might be a secret warranty that covers your machine. I have a 15” late 2011 and when I last took it in for a problem (in January) they tested it to see if I qualified for the secret warranty. It turns out that the Intel video card on the motherboard had high defective rates. You should take it to an Apple store.

It's not "secret", even if you didn't know about it. I remember that particular repair extension program was discussed extensively on Macintouch at the time it was first announced.

Here is a list of current repair extension programs. Actually, I thought the extension for 2011 MacBook Pro video issues had expired, but it is still listed.



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Re: Urgent help needed --migrate from newer to older OS?

David Brostoff-2
In reply to this post by Alexander Forbes
On Jun 13, 2017, at 8:28 AM, Alexander Forbes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I don’t know if this applies to the particular problem prompting this thread, but I’ve also read here that problems DO arise from any mix of  IMAP and POP on a user machine, account or mail server.

The problem I had wasn't caused by Mail but thank you for mentioning this possibility.

David




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Re: Urgent help needed --migrate from newer to older OS?

David Brostoff-2
In reply to this post by Al Varnell
On Jun 13, 2017, at 4:16 PM, gastropod <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I think a bigger issue with POP these days is
> that ISPs  or mail 'services' that make you use POP instead of IMAP
> don't care a pin about good mail service--POP is horribly inefficient on
> the server end, especially if enough people do keep mail on the server
> forever.

In my case, one of the main reasons I have kept POP accounts is that I use Mail.app smf my business email accounts are with Google Apps for Business.

From what I have read, Google IMAP accounts used to create many problems for Mail.

Still true?

David


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Re: Urgent help needed --migrate from newer to older OS?

Al Varnell
On Jun 13, 2017, at 5:51 PM, David Brostoff  wrote:

> On Jun 13, 2017, at 4:16 PM, gastropod wrote:
>>
>> I think a bigger issue with POP these days is
>> that ISPs  or mail 'services' that make you use POP instead of IMAP
>> don't care a pin about good mail service--POP is horribly inefficient on
>> the server end, especially if enough people do keep mail on the server
>> forever.
>
> In my case, one of the main reasons I have kept POP accounts is that I use Mail.app smf my business email accounts are with Google Apps for Business.
>
> From what I have read, Google IMAP accounts used to create many problems for Mail.
>
> Still true?
>
> David

As I recall, most such problems arose during El Capitan a couple of years ago when Apple tried to make Mail more user friendly at a time when Google was tweaking things on their end. At some point Apple and Google reached an agreement that Mail would defer to Google when setting up an account. At some point when I was having a small issue, I followed the advice being given by others to simply delete my account and re-establish it. Took a minute or two of my time and a short time later all my gmail was restored and I haven't had any issue since.

There is one aspect of Google's IMAP implementation (which is not standard) that annoyed me until I found the right setting on the mail.google.com site. There is only one copy of each message in the server's "All Mail" mailbox, but it uses labels to make it appear in one or more other mailboxes. So after deleting a message from my Inbox or Junk mailbox, it just changes the label. Even when you empty the Trash, the message stays in All Mail which shows up in Apple Mail as the gmail Archive mailbox. I could only permanently eliminate such messages by using WebMail in a browser, visiting the All Mail folder, deleting it there and then emptying the trash. Rather than having to do that all the time, I opted to change the settings on the server to not display the All Mail folder in IMAP (which deleted the gmail Archive folder). Those messages are still on the server, but I never have to see them on my computer again.

Sent from Janet's iPad

-Al-
--
Al Varnell
Mountain View, CA


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Re: Urgent help needed --migrate from newer to older OS?

David Brostoff-2
In reply to this post by David Brostoff-2
On Jun 12, 2017, at 10:11 PM, BROSTOFF DAVID <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> My MacBook Pro Late 2011 17-inch (10.12.5, SSD) suddenly has the vertical lines symptoms described here: <https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/help-vertical-lines-on-screen-on-startup>.

Sorry for the broken link -- here is the correct one:
<https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/help-vertical-lines-on-screen-on-startup.1934511/>


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