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TidBITS: Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

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TidBITS: Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

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Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

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Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

By Josh Centers
http://tidbits.com/article/17230

Focusing on bug and security fixes, Apple today updated all of its operating systems: macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1.

As always, it pays to wait at least a few days to install these updates. We haven’t heard of any problems out of the gate, but Apple was so parsimonious with release notes that it’s hard to muster much enthusiasm for updating right away. It’s best to err on the side of caution this time.

macOS 10.12.5 -- macOS 10.12.5 Sierra is available via Software Update, where it’s a roughly 894 MB download. Delta and combo updaters aren’t yet available but should appear soon on Apple’s download page.

Update notes are sparse, but practically long-winded compared to the notes for the other OS updates. Identified improvements include a fix for an issue where audio may stutter when played through USB headphones, a mysterious claim of enhanced Mac App Store compatibility with future updates, and added support for media-free installations of the Windows 10 Creators Update in Boot Camp.


macOS 10.12.5 includes 30 security fixes.

iOS 10.3.2 -- The roughly 200 MB iOS 10.3.2 update can be installed in Settings > General > Software Update or via iTunes. However, the release notes say only, “iOS 10.3.2 includes bug fixes and improves the security of your iPhone or iPad.”

Image

iOS 10.3.2 integrates 23 security fixes.

watchOS 3.2.2 -- Don’t expect more detail from the watch OS 3.2.2 release notes, which offer only the even terser, “This update includes improvements and bug fixes.”


You install the 41.7 MB update via the Watch app on your iPhone (in Watch > Settings > General > Software Update). Remember that the Apple Watch must be on its charger, charged to at least 50 percent, and within range of your iPhone, which itself must be on Wi-Fi. Don’t start installing if you’ll want to use the watch again within an hour or so — watchOS updates take surprisingly long to load.

watchOS 3.2.2 features 10 security fixes.

tvOS 10.2.1 -- With the tvOS 10.2.1 update, Apple is willing to cop only to “This update includes general performance and stability improvements.” You can get the tvOS 10.2 update on your fourth-generation Apple TV via Settings > System > Software Updates > Update Software.

tvOS 10.2.1 offers 14 security fixes.

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Article copyright © 2017 By Josh Centers . Reuse governed by Creative Commons License.




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Re: TidBITS: Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

David Brostoff-2
On May 15, 2017, at 12:56 PM, TidBITS Articles <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> macOS 10.12.5 -- macOS 10.12.5 Sierra is available via Software Update, where it’s a roughly 894 MB download. Delta and combo updaters aren’t yet available but should appear soon on Apple’s download page.

The combo updater (2.15 GB) is now available.

David


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Re: TidBITS: Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

adamengst
Administrator

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 5:06 PM, David Brostoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
The combo updater (2.15 GB) is now available.

At what URL? I’m not seeing it at https://support.apple.com/downloads/ yet.

cheers... -Adam



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Re: TidBITS: Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

David Brostoff-2
On May 15, 2017, at 2:32 PM, Adam Engst <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 5:06 PM, David Brostoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The combo updater (2.15 GB) is now available.
>
> At what URL? I’m not seeing it at https://support.apple.com/downloads/ yet.

I got it here:
<https://support.apple.com/downloads/combo>

David




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Re: TidBITS: Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

David Brostoff-2
> On May 15, 2017, at 3:12 PM, David Brostoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On May 15, 2017, at 2:32 PM, Adam Engst <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 5:06 PM, David Brostoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The combo updater (2.15 GB) is now available.
>>
>> At what URL? I’m not seeing it at https://support.apple.com/downloads/ yet.
>
> I got it here:
> <https://support.apple.com/downloads/combo>

You can get there from <https://support.apple.com/downloads/> if you then enter "combo" (without the quotes) in the search window.

David


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Re: TidBITS: Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

adamengst
Administrator

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 6:15 PM, David Brostoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
You can get there from <https://support.apple.com/downloads/> if you then enter "combo" (without the quotes) in the search window.

Clever! The search works for 10.12.5 too!


Josh, we should remember this...

cheers... -Adam 




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Re: TidBITS: Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

David Brostoff-2
On May 15, 2017, at 3:26 PM, Adam Engst <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 6:15 PM, David Brostoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
> You can get there from <https://support.apple.com/downloads/> if you then enter "combo" (without the quotes) in the search window.
>
> Clever! The search works for 10.12.5 too!

I wish I could take credit for it, but I found it by clicking the link "from Apple here on this website" in the text below on OSXDaily.com:

"1. Download the necessary Mac OS X combo update from Apple here on this website, many versions are available for every version of Mac OS X ever released"
<http://osxdaily.com/2016/03/22/how-use-combo-update-mac-os-x/>

David


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Re: TidBITS: Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

John Turner
Way to go David! While on this subject Carol has on old iMac that runs 10.6.8…really old stuff. I would love to update it a bit for her because her browsers are old and Google won’t update and Safari is ancient. I fear Bothe are security risks. Is there an unofficial way to update to even 10.7? That would help her a lot. The App Store will not update anything. Any advise aside from buying a new Mac would be welcome.  Carol loves her Mac and I cannot get her to get a new one. We are Bothe senior citizens and she just really does not want to spend the cash.

JT

On May 15, 2017, 6:36 PM -0400, David Brostoff <[hidden email]>, wrote:
On May 15, 2017, at 3:26 PM, Adam Engst <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 6:15 PM, David Brostoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
You can get there from <https://support.apple.com/downloads/> if you then enter "combo" (without the quotes) in the search window.

Clever! The search works for 10.12.5 too!

I wish I could take credit for it, but I found it by clicking the link "from Apple here on this website" in the text below on OSXDaily.com:

"1. Download the necessary Mac OS X combo update from Apple here on this website, many versions are available for every version of Mac OS X ever released"
<http://osxdaily.com/2016/03/22/how-use-combo-update-mac-os-x/

David


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Re: TidBITS: Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

Randy B. Singer

On May 15, 2017, at 3:38 PM, John Turner wrote:

> Way to go David! While on this subject Carol has on old iMac that runs 10.6.8…really old stuff. I would love to update it a bit for her because her browsers are old and Google won’t update and Safari is ancient. I fear Bothe are security risks. Is there an unofficial way to update to even 10.7?

I still maintain an old Macintosh running OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) so that I can run legacy software that requires Rosetta.  I also have a number of clients who, for one reason or another, will never upgrade from
Snow Leopard, and I've worked with them to keep Snow Leopard viable for use.

The easiest, and least expensive (free) thing to do is to stick with Snow Leopard and move to a more modern (and stable) browser.  You can't move to the most recent version of Firefox, but this version, Firefox (48.0.2), is still available to download for free.  It is fairly modern and it runs absolutely perfectly under Snow Leopard.
https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/48.0.2/

However, if you really want to upgrade to Lion, you can still purchase a copy from Apple for only $20:

OS X 10.7 - Lion  $20
http://store.apple.com/us/product/D6106Z/A/os-x-lion

Note that if you upgrade to Lion all of your software that depends on Rosetta to run will break and be lost (unless its developer has an update available.)  You can find out which software will be lost in the upgrade to Lion using this free utility:

Appsolete (free)
http://www.splasm.com/appsolete/

At this point I don't recommend upgrading to Lion.  Not only is it a lot of trouble, but old Macs (yours is probably about 10 years old now) have old rotating disk hard drives (RDHD's).  Upgrading to a new major version of the Mac OS gives your hard drive quite a workout.  Old RDHD's often decide to expire after such a workout.

___________________________________________
Randy B. Singer
Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)

Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
___________________________________________






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Re: TidBITS: Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

John Turner
My concern is security. Carol does all of our banking etc on the iMac. I suspect that the Mac is so old that no one would really pay any attention to it. Another problem is that I would like to share my new Canon Printer with her but Canon says that she needs to run at least 10.7.

Apple says that her iMac is to old to update to 10.7…in fact the App Store will not update any of her apps. Being serious senior citizens buying a new iMac for her is unlikely. That is why I was trying to find a work around to update her system. I guess we’re stuck. I do not want to take a chance of destroying her drive. She really loves her Mac. I do thank you very much for your advise though!

JT

On May 15, 2017, 8:48 PM -0400, Randy B. Singer <[hidden email]>, wrote:

On May 15, 2017, at 3:38 PM, John Turner wrote:

Way to go David! While on this subject Carol has on old iMac that runs 10.6.8…really old stuff. I would love to update it a bit for her because her browsers are old and Google won’t update and Safari is ancient. I fear Bothe are security risks. Is there an unofficial way to update to even 10.7?

I still maintain an old Macintosh running OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) so that I can run legacy software that requires Rosetta. I also have a number of clients who, for one reason or another, will never upgrade from
Snow Leopard, and I've worked with them to keep Snow Leopard viable for use.

The easiest, and least expensive (free) thing to do is to stick with Snow Leopard and move to a more modern (and stable) browser. You can't move to the most recent version of Firefox, but this version, Firefox (48.0.2), is still available to download for free. It is fairly modern and it runs absolutely perfectly under Snow Leopard.
https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/48.0.2/

However, if you really want to upgrade to Lion, you can still purchase a copy from Apple for only $20:

OS X 10.7 - Lion $20
http://store.apple.com/us/product/D6106Z/A/os-x-lion

Note that if you upgrade to Lion all of your software that depends on Rosetta to run will break and be lost (unless its developer has an update available.) You can find out which software will be lost in the upgrade to Lion using this free utility:

Appsolete (free)
http://www.splasm.com/appsolete/

At this point I don't recommend upgrading to Lion. Not only is it a lot of trouble, but old Macs (yours is probably about 10 years old now) have old rotating disk hard drives (RDHD's). Upgrading to a new major version of the Mac OS gives your hard drive quite a workout. Old RDHD's often decide to expire after such a workout.

___________________________________________
Randy B. Singer
Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)

Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
___________________________________________






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Re: TidBITS: Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

Hector I Macedo-3
Another resource that has been mentioned here other times is :  http://lowendmac.com/2014/lem-swap/ its a list of owners and buyers of used Mac items and quite affordable prices in general

On May 15, 2017, at 8:43 PM,5/15/17, gastropod <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Mon, May 15, 2017, at 05:54 PM, John Turner wrote:
My concern is security. Carol does all of our banking etc on the iMac.

I'm surprised that any bank would still let a snow leopard Safari


Hector I Macedo

"The trout do not rise in the cemetery, so you better do your fishing
while you are still able." 
- Sparse Grey Hackle




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Updating 10.6.8 iMac

@lbutlr
In reply to this post by John Turner
On 2017-05-15 (16:38 MDT), John Turner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Carol has on old iMac that runs 10.6.8…really old stuff. I would love to update it a bit for her because her browsers are old and Google won’t update and Safari is ancient. I fear Bothe are security risks. Is there an unofficial way to update to even 10.7?

We’d have to know the model of iMac in order to answer this. There are iMacs that peak at 10.6.8 and the are iMacs that can run 10.6.8 but can be updated.

Basically…

Mid-2006      10.6.8
Late 2006     10.7.5
2007-mid 2009 10.11.6
Late 2009+    10.12.x

If you are capped at 10.7.5 then I think you still have to buy that, but if you can run 10.11 or 10.12, you can get intermediate versions to make the update possible directly from Apple. You will need to contact Apple to upgrade from 10.6.8 if your iClud/iTunes accounts haven’t gotten the intermediate version. If so, they should be available in your purchased tab in the App Store app.

--
Apple broke AppleScripting signatures in Mail.app, so no random signatures.




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Re: TidBITS: Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

Jim Carr
In reply to this post by John Turner
gastropod wrote, On 5/15/17, 6:43 PM:

> -snip--
> By the way, every USian, retired or not, should create a Social Security
> account if you haven't.  It's so easy to do that crooks will do it for
> you, as soon as they get around to your name or number.  It's also worth
> putting a security freeze on all of the credit bureaus even if it costs
> some money--that will prevent many kinds of fraud, as opposed to credit
> monitoring which will only alert you to fraud after it happens:
>
> http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/09/crooks-hijack-retirement-funds-via-ssa-portal/
> https://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/11/report-everyone-should-get-a-security-freeze/
>
FYI:

<https://www.ssa.gov/myaccount/message.html>


Changes Coming to your my Social Security Account

Social Security is constantly improving the way we protect what’s
important to you. Beginning June 10, 2017, we will use a second method
to check the identification of my Social Security account holders when
they register or sign in. You can choose either your cell phone or your
email address as your second identification method. Using two ways to
identify you when you log on will help better protect your account from
unauthorized use and potential identity fraud. Since an email address is
already required to use my Social Security, everyone can continue to
benefit from the features my Social Security provides. If you plan to
select email as your second method, you can ensure that the one-time
security code email does not go into your spam or junk folder by adding
[hidden email] to your contact list.

---


Also note their system only works 5 a.m. to 1 a.m. ET Monday to Friday,
5 a.m. to 11 p.m. on Saturday and 8:00 a.m. to 11:30 p.m. on Sunday.

--Jim

--
Jim Carr
[hidden email]
---------------------------------------------------------------------



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Re: TidBITS: Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

Brian Pearce
In reply to this post by John Turner
When there’s a compelling reason to upgrade past 10.6.8 to 10.7 — and I can think of several! — we generally recommend 10.9. That version introduced better memory management, and it’s become our reliable go-to for older hardware that we don’t feel is well-suited for anything more recent.

Unfortunately, though, I don’t believe that can be ordered from Apple — if you don’t have access to the installer from the Mac App Store to build a Flash Drive, the only alternative would be to order 10.7 from Apple.

And as has been said, it’s critical to have a back-up before making a major change like this. At best, you may end up with an unstable system — at worst, a Hard Drive that’s been pushed a bit further than it was able to go, and the risk of data loss.

BRIAN




On May 15, 2017, at 8:54 PM, John Turner <[hidden email]> wrote:

My concern is security. Carol does all of our banking etc on the iMac. I suspect that the Mac is so old that no one would really pay any attention to it. Another problem is that I would like to share my new Canon Printer with her but Canon says that she needs to run at least 10.7.

Apple says that her iMac is to old to update to 10.7…in fact the App Store will not update any of her apps. Being serious senior citizens buying a new iMac for her is unlikely. That is why I was trying to find a work around to update her system. I guess we’re stuck. I do not want to take a chance of destroying her drive. She really loves her Mac. I do thank you very much for your advise though!

JT

On May 15, 2017, 8:48 PM -0400, Randy B. Singer <[hidden email]>, wrote:

On May 15, 2017, at 3:38 PM, John Turner wrote:

Way to go David! While on this subject Carol has on old iMac that runs 10.6.8…really old stuff. I would love to update it a bit for her because her browsers are old and Google won’t update and Safari is ancient. I fear Bothe are security risks. Is there an unofficial way to update to even 10.7?

I still maintain an old Macintosh running OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) so that I can run legacy software that requires Rosetta. I also have a number of clients who, for one reason or another, will never upgrade from
Snow Leopard, and I've worked with them to keep Snow Leopard viable for use.

The easiest, and least expensive (free) thing to do is to stick with Snow Leopard and move to a more modern (and stable) browser. You can't move to the most recent version of Firefox, but this version, Firefox (48.0.2), is still available to download for free. It is fairly modern and it runs absolutely perfectly under Snow Leopard.
https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/48.0.2/

However, if you really want to upgrade to Lion, you can still purchase a copy from Apple for only $20:

OS X 10.7 - Lion $20
http://store.apple.com/us/product/D6106Z/A/os-x-lion

Note that if you upgrade to Lion all of your software that depends on Rosetta to run will break and be lost (unless its developer has an update available.) You can find out which software will be lost in the upgrade to Lion using this free utility:

Appsolete (free)
http://www.splasm.com/appsolete/

At this point I don't recommend upgrading to Lion. Not only is it a lot of trouble, but old Macs (yours is probably about 10 years old now) have old rotating disk hard drives (RDHD's). Upgrading to a new major version of the Mac OS gives your hard drive quite a workout. Old RDHD's often decide to expire after such a workout.

___________________________________________
Randy B. Singer
Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)

Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
___________________________________________






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Re: TidBITS: Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

George Wade
In reply to this post by Randy B. Singer
That version of Firefox, (48.0.2 and any successors) seems to be kept alive expressly for big organisations running Snow Leopard.  Perhaps we shall get another year or five out of it.  I expect it is for class  rooms for example.  The future is not completely bleak, but I am going back to part time work (aged 77) to buy a modern set up of iMac + iPad in a year or so.

George

On 15 May 2017, at 20:46, Randy B. Singer wrote:

>
> On May 15, 2017, at 3:38 PM, John Turner wrote:
>
>> Way to go David! While on this subject Carol has on old iMac that runs 10.6.8…really old stuff. I would love to update it a bit for her because her browsers are old and Google won’t update and Safari is ancient. I fear Bothe are security risks. Is there an unofficial way to update to even 10.7?
>
> I still maintain an old Macintosh running OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) so that I can run legacy software that requires Rosetta.  I also have a number of clients who, for one reason or another, will never upgrade from
> Snow Leopard, and I've worked with them to keep Snow Leopard viable for use.
>
> The easiest, and least expensive (free) thing to do is to stick with Snow Leopard and move to a more modern (and stable) browser.  You can't move to the most recent version of Firefox, but this version, Firefox (48.0.2), is still available to download for free.  It is fairly modern and it runs absolutely perfectly under Snow Leopard.
> https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/48.0.2/
>
> However, if you really want to upgrade to Lion, you can still purchase a copy from Apple for only $20:
>
> OS X 10.7 - Lion  $20
> http://store.apple.com/us/product/D6106Z/A/os-x-lion
>
> Note that if you upgrade to Lion all of your software that depends on Rosetta to run will break and be lost (unless its developer has an update available.)  You can find out which software will be lost in the upgrade to Lion using this free utility:
>
> Appsolete (free)
> http://www.splasm.com/appsolete/
>
> At this point I don't recommend upgrading to Lion.  Not only is it a lot of trouble, but old Macs (yours is probably about 10 years old now) have old rotating disk hard drives (RDHD's).  Upgrading to a new major version of the Mac OS gives your hard drive quite a workout.  Old RDHD's often decide to expire after such a workout.
>
> ___________________________________________
> Randy B. Singer
> Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
>
> Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
> http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
> ___________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
> Post only when you have something substantive to contribute.
> Be polite and constructive, and comment on posts, not people.
> Quote sparingly, if at all. We all read the previous message.
> Start threads with a new message to [hidden email].
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> Unsubscribe at: http://tidbits.com/mailman/options/tidbits-talk
> ____Mailing List Manners: http://tidbits.com/series/1141 ____




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Re: TidBITS: Apple Releases macOS 10.12.5, iOS 10.3.2, watchOS 3.2.2, and tvOS 10.2.1

Nicky Y. Schleider

> On May 18, 2017, at 8:47 AM, George Wade <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> That version of Firefox, (48.0.2 and any successors) seems to be kept alive expressly for big organisations running Snow Leopard.  Perhaps we shall get another year or five out of it.  I expect it is for class  rooms for example.  The future is not completely bleak, but I am going back to part time work (aged 77) to buy a modern set up of iMac + iPad in a year or so.
>
> George
>
> On 15 May 2017, at 20:46, Randy B. Singer wrote:
>
>>
>> On May 15, 2017, at 3:38 PM, John Turner wrote:
>>
>>> Way to go David! While on this subject Carol has on old iMac that runs 10.6.8…really old stuff. I would love to update it a bit for her because her browsers are old and Google won’t update and Safari is ancient. I fear Bothe are security risks. Is there an unofficial way to update to even 10.7?
>>
>> I still maintain an old Macintosh running OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) so that I can run legacy software that requires Rosetta.  I also have a number of clients who, for one reason or another, will never upgrade from
>> Snow Leopard, and I've worked with them to keep Snow Leopard viable for use.
>>
>> The easiest, and least expensive (free) thing to do is to stick with Snow Leopard and move to a more modern (and stable) browser.  You can't move to the most recent version of Firefox, but this version, Firefox (48.0.2), is still available to download for free.  It is fairly modern and it runs absolutely perfectly under Snow Leopard.
>> https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/48.0.2/
>>
>> However, if you really want to upgrade to Lion, you can still purchase a copy from Apple for only $20:
>>
>> OS X 10.7 - Lion  $20
>> http://store.apple.com/us/product/D6106Z/A/os-x-lion
>>
>> Note that if you upgrade to Lion all of your software that depends on Rosetta to run will break and be lost (unless its developer has an update available.)  You can find out which software will be lost in the upgrade to Lion using this free utility:
>>
>> Appsolete (free)
>> http://www.splasm.com/appsolete/
>>
>> At this point I don't recommend upgrading to Lion.  Not only is it a lot of trouble, but old Macs (yours is probably about 10 years old now) have old rotating disk hard drives (RDHD's).  Upgrading to a new major version of the Mac OS gives your hard drive quite a workout.  Old RDHD's often decide to expire after such a workout.
>>
>> ___________________________________________
>> Randy B. Singer
>> Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
>>
>> Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
>> http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
>> ___________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
>> Post only when you have something substantive to contribute.
>> Be polite and constructive, and comment on posts, not people.
>> Quote sparingly, if at all. We all read the previous message.
>> Start threads with a new message to [hidden email].
>> Read archives at: http://tidbits.com/pipermail/tidbits-talk/
>> Unsubscribe at: http://tidbits.com/mailman/options/tidbits-talk
>> ____Mailing List Manners: http://tidbits.com/series/1141 ____
>
>
>
>
> ____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
> Post only when you have something substantive to contribute.
> Be polite and constructive, and comment on posts, not people.
> Quote sparingly, if at all. We all read the previous message.
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> Unsubscribe at: http://tidbits.com/mailman/options/tidbits-talk
> ____Mailing List Manners: http://tidbits.com/series/1141 ____




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