Sever Junk Mall that isn't junk

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Sever Junk Mall that isn't junk

Jerome King-2
One of the people I follow keeps having their email messages ending in my JUNK folder

I think this is an Apple Mail Server (not in my iMac. )

The messages aren’t "junk"

Spam Sieve lets me "retrain" its logic by using Command Shift G to tell its rule process that it is okay

Is there any way to influence the Apple (iCloud and other) analyzer to accept messages?  I’ve tried my Spam Sieve commands but that doesn’t seem to work

JWK


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Re: Sever Junk Mall that isn't junk

Al Varnell
Mark the message as “Not Junk” and move to Inbox, if necessary. That will train both Apple Mail and the server.

Sent from my iPad

-Al-

On Dec 9, 2017, at 2:27 PM, Jerome King wrote:

> One of the people I follow keeps having their email messages ending in my JUNK folder
>
> I think this is an Apple Mail Server (not in my iMac. )
>
> The messages aren’t "junk"
>
> Spam Sieve lets me "retrain" its logic by using Command Shift G to tell its rule process that it is okay
>
> Is there any way to influence the Apple (iCloud and other) analyzer to accept messages?  I’ve tried my Spam Sieve commands but that doesn’t seem to work
>
> JWK



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Re: Sever Junk Mall that isn't junk

George Wade
That takes a few repetitions then does begin to work on OS 10.6.8 - even. The last 'Move To' command gets memorised to help out.
George

Sent from my iPod

On 9 Dec 2017, at 20:19, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Mark the message as “Not Junk” and move to Inbox, if necessary. That will train both Apple Mail and the server.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> -Al-
>
> On Dec 9, 2017, at 2:27 PM, Jerome King wrote:
>> One of the people I follow keeps having their email messages ending in my JUNK folder
>>
>> I think this is an Apple Mail Server (not in my iMac. )
>>
>> The messages aren’t "junk"
>>
>> Spam Sieve lets me "retrain" its logic by using Command Shift G to tell its rule process that it is okay
>>
>> Is there any way to influence the Apple (iCloud and other) analyzer to accept messages?  I’ve tried my Spam Sieve commands but that doesn’t seem to work
>>
>> JWK
>
>
>
> ____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
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> Be polite and constructive, and comment on posts, not people.
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Re: Sever Junk Mall that isn't junk

@lbutlr
In reply to this post by Jerome King-2
On 09 Dec 2017, at 15:27, Jerome King <[hidden email]> wrote:
> One of the people I follow keeps having their email messages ending in my JUNK folder
>
> I think this is an Apple Mail Server (not in my iMac. )

No, I doubt it. Junk mail is learned on your computer and marked on your computer, by and large.

Retraining means marking the message as NOT junk and moving it to your Inbox. This normally works, but I do have some messages that Mail.app continues to think are spam. However, looking at my junk folder now the only things that have been reclassified as junk improperly are things that have been marked by SpamAssassin as junk, so I can’t really fault the Junk mail filtering on that score.

--
Apple broke AppleScripting signatures in Mail.app, so no random signatures.




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Re: Sever Junk Mall that isn't junk

Jeffrey Jones-2
On Dec 9, 2017, at 9:11 PM, @lbutlr <[hidden email]> wrote:

No, I doubt it. Junk mail is learned on your computer and marked on your computer, by and large.

iCloud has a server-side junk filter. I don't know anyway to train it. Messages in the iCloud Junk mailbox are not "marked" junk -- they are simply placed in a server-side Junk mailbox, before your computer or other devices see it. You cannot use the "Move to Inbox" command ("Mark Not Junk" on older Mail editions) because Mail doesn't see the message as Junk. (The message skips Mail's client-side junk filter since it was already processed on the server.)

Of course you can manually move the message, but I see no reason to believe that that trains anything.



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Re: Sever Junk Mall that isn't junk

Ryoichi Morita-4
In reply to this post by Jerome King-2

On Dec 9, 2017, at 2:27 PM, Jerome King <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is there any way to influence the Apple (iCloud and other) analyzer to accept messages?  I’ve tried my Spam Sieve commands but that doesn’t seem to work

I wonder if you can create a “rule” to force the mail to go into the Inbox, then put the rule before Spam Sieve. 

Just a thought. 

Ryoichi Morita




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Re: Sever Junk Mall that isn't junk

Al Varnell
In reply to this post by Jeffrey Jones-2
On Sat, Dec 09, 2017 at 06:54 PM, Jeffrey Jones wrote:
On Dec 9, 2017, at 9:11 PM, @lbutlr wrote:
No, I doubt it. Junk mail is learned on your computer and marked on your computer, by and large.

iCloud has a server-side junk filter. I don't know anyway to train it.
 
Messages in the iCloud Junk mailbox are not "marked" junk -- they are simply placed in a server-side Junk mailbox, before your computer or other devices see it. You cannot use the "Move to Inbox" command ("Mark Not Junk" on older Mail editions) because Mail doesn't see the message as Junk. (The message skips Mail's client-side junk filter since it was already processed on the server.)

Of course you can manually move the message, but I see no reason to believe that that trains anything.

I mentioned earlier how this is done. Since at least Sierra or probably even before, Apple Mail is able to communicate back to the server the indication that you have moved a message formerly marked as Junk to your Inbox, thus training the server, at least for iCloud mail. That capability may even exist for other e-mail ISP servers, but I can't say for certain.


-Al-
-- 
Al Varnell
Mountain View, CA







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Re: Sever Junk Mall that isn't junk

Jeffrey Jones-2
On Dec 9, 2017, at 10:08 PM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:

I mentioned earlier how this is done. Since at least Sierra or probably even before, Apple Mail is able to communicate back to the server the indication that you have moved a message formerly marked as Junk to your Inbox, thus training the server, at least for iCloud mail. That capability may even exist for other e-mail ISP servers, but I can't say for certain.

But messages in the server junk mailbox are not "marked" as junk -- at least they are not flagged and colored brown, like in Mail's Junk mailbox. Does the simple movement of an unmarked message cause some invisible change in status?



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Re: Sever Junk Mall that isn't junk

Al Varnell
On Dec 9, 2017, at 8:20 PM, Jeffrey Jones  wrote:
On Dec 9, 2017, at 10:08 PM, Al Varnell wrote:
I mentioned earlier how this is done. Since at least Sierra or probably even before, Apple Mail is able to communicate back to the server the indication that you have moved a message formerly marked as Junk to your Inbox, thus training the server, at least for iCloud mail. That capability may even exist for other e-mail ISP servers, but I can't say for certain.

But messages in the server junk mailbox are not "marked" as junk -- at least they are not flagged and colored brown, like in Mail's Junk mailbox. Does the simple movement of an unmarked message cause some invisible change in status?

Yes, as long as you make the move from Apple Mail. 

As far as moving it on the server is concerned, I can't say, but would guess that has the same effect.


Sent from my iPad

-Al-



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Re: Sever Junk Mall that isn't junk

Doug Hogg
I use SpamSieve with Apple's Junk mail turned off and I run into the same issue of some email being filtered before it gets to my computer. My usual tactic is to add the contact to my contacts.

However a few days ago, I found an email from my Apple [hidden email] email account in my wife's mac.com junk mail folder at work. (She does not have Spamsieve.) Looking through her junk folder, I found another similar email from someone else in her contacts. 

:-)

Doug Hogg

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 9, 2017, at 9:03 PM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Dec 9, 2017, at 8:20 PM, Jeffrey Jones  wrote:
On Dec 9, 2017, at 10:08 PM, Al Varnell wrote:
I mentioned earlier how this is done. Since at least Sierra or probably even before, Apple Mail is able to communicate back to the server the indication that you have moved a message formerly marked as Junk to your Inbox, thus training the server, at least for iCloud mail. That capability may even exist for other e-mail ISP servers, but I can't say for certain.

But messages in the server junk mailbox are not "marked" as junk -- at least they are not flagged and colored brown, like in Mail's Junk mailbox. Does the simple movement of an unmarked message cause some invisible change in status?

Yes, as long as you make the move from Apple Mail. 

As far as moving it on the server is concerned, I can't say, but would guess that has the same effect.


Sent from my iPad

-Al-


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