High Sierra and my mini.

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High Sierra and my mini.

John Turner
I see from some notes on TidBITS that t he new High Sierra will run on my mini ( mid-2011) but that it is designed for a new type of HD. Do you think that it is possible to change the HD in my mini to meet this new standard?

JT



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Re: High Sierra and my mini.

Thomas Roberts

High Sierra provides a new file system format called APFS which is optimized for Solid State Drives (SSD), but will work just fine with the older disks of the type that came with your Mini. Upgrading your disk to an SSD, even without APFS, would honestly make your Mini feel like a whole new computer. Everything will feel a lot faster. It’s a pretty inexpensive upgrade that provides huge gains in speed and reliability.

Crucial has a step-by-step for upgrading your particular machine (but be sure you have everything backed up so that you can restore all of your data to the new drive.) http://guides.crucial.com/Guide/Mac+Mini+Mid+2011+SSD+Installation/456



On 11 Jun 2017, at 8:40, John Turner wrote:

I see from some notes on TidBITS that t he new High Sierra will run on my mini ( mid-2011) but that it is designed for a new type of HD. Do you think that it is possible to change the HD in my mini to meet this new standard?

JT

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Re: High Sierra and my mini.

John Turner
Thanks Thomas! I am studying the site now. It looks like I can upgrade my RAM to 16 gigs despite Apple telling me that the 8 gigs is all that can be installed. I’m waiting for Crucial to give me a response.

JT

On Jun 11, 2017, 11:47 AM -0400, Thomas Roberts <[hidden email]>, wrote:

High Sierra provides a new file system format called APFS which is optimized for Solid State Drives (SSD), but will work just fine with the older disks of the type that came with your Mini. Upgrading your disk to an SSD, even without APFS, would honestly make your Mini feel like a whole new computer. Everything will feel a lot faster. It’s a pretty inexpensive upgrade that provides huge gains in speed and reliability.

Crucial has a step-by-step for upgrading your particular machine (but be sure you have everything backed up so that you can restore all of your data to the new drive.) http://guides.crucial.com/Guide/Mac+Mini+Mid+2011+SSD+Installation/456



On 11 Jun 2017, at 8:40, John Turner wrote:

I see from some notes on TidBITS that t he new High Sierra will run on my mini ( mid-2011) but that it is designed for a new type of HD. Do you think that it is possible to change the HD in my mini to meet this new standard?

JT

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Re: High Sierra and my mini.

Neil Laubenthal
In reply to this post by Thomas Roberts
Does this hold true even when the mini in question is running Server app and is headless? That's the way mine is and all the data files it is serving are on external USB3 spinning drives…in that configure I had decided that an SSD would make no difference so had passed on upgrading so far. It's a Late 2014 model connected via 100Mb Ethernet and all the clients are connecting via ac wireless.

neil

The three kinds of stress…nuclear, cooking and a&&hole. Jello is the key to the relationship.

> On Jun 11, 2017, at 09:46, Thomas Roberts <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Upgrading your disk to an SSD, even without APFS, would honestly make your Mini feel like a whole new computer. Everything will feel a lot faster.




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Re: High Sierra and my mini.

James R Cutler
The mini server is the same hardware as the non-server version except for the type and quantity of drives. You should compare booting from an external spinning drive and an SSD. Seek time as various file fragments are loaded or written approaches zero on an SSD, so the difference is dramatic.

If you don’t want to risk taking apart your mini,, you can use an SSD in an good external enclosure connected via USB3 or Thunderbolt 2. I have only had time to install High Sierra Beta on an external HFS+ formatted SSD in an OWC Thunderbolt IV enclosure. Switching to the Sierra boot drive was simple. When I have time, I will make a new install using AFPS.


> On Jun 11, 2017, at 2:41 PM, Neil Laubenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Does this hold true even when the mini in question is running Server app and is headless? That's the way mine is and all the data files it is serving are on external USB3 spinning drives…in that configure I had decided that an SSD would make no difference so had passed on upgrading so far. It's a Late 2014 model connected via 100Mb Ethernet and all the clients are connecting via ac wireless.
>
> neil
>
> The three kinds of stress…nuclear, cooking and a&&hole. Jello is the key to the relationship.
>
>> On Jun 11, 2017, at 09:46, Thomas Roberts <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Upgrading your disk to an SSD, even without APFS, would honestly make your Mini feel like a whole new computer. Everything will feel a lot faster.
>
>
>
>
> ____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
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Re: High Sierra and my mini.

Neil Laubenthal
I know that…this isn’t the server version of the Mini…just the regular one that I installed the Server app on from the App Store. What I was wondering…and I would have tested it myself if I had a spare SSD sitting around…was whether putting in an SSD instead of a spinning drive would increase performance of the Server app to it’s connected clients. Clearly an SSD is way faster if you have data and apps on it…but in this case the internal drive has OS and Server App only with all data on external spinners…and my question (I thought) was whether anybody had actually tried this and had any firsthand info on performance in this configuration.

For a machine used by normal users…SSDs are clearly superior. For a headless server…they’re not clearly superior other than faster booting and initial launch of the server app after it’s done booting…I have no idea whether Server app would do it’s job any faster with an SSD with the data all on external spinning drives.


On Jun 11, 2017, at 1:12 PM, James R Cutler <[hidden email]> wrote:

The mini server is the same hardware as the non-server version except for the type and quantity of drives. You should compare booting from an external spinning drive and an SSD. Seek time as various file fragments are loaded or written approaches zero on an SSD, so the difference is dramatic.


-----------------------------------------------
There are only three kinds of stress; your basic nuclear stress, cooking stress, and A$$hole stress. The key to their relationship is Jello.

neil






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Re: High Sierra and my mini.

David Ross
While not all will agree with me...

IMNERHO any system with an SSD is 10 times (or more) reliable than one
with spinning rust. Based on what I know about the mechanics of spinning
rust and experience.

David

On 6/11/17 6:59 PM, Neil Laubenthal wrote:
> For a machine used by normal users…SSDs are clearly superior. For a
> headless server…they’re not clearly superior other than faster booting
> and initial launch of the server app after it’s done booting…I have no
> idea whether Server app would do it’s job any faster with an SSD with
> the data all on external spinning drives.
>



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Re: High Sierra and my mini.

Neil Laubenthal
I suspect you may be right but haven’t really seen any specific studies on it…but I was actually wondering about performance in a headless server config with no data being served on the internal drive.

In my experience as a sysadmin…drives that are running all the time tend to fail a lot less than ones that are powered up and down every day…but that’s just anecdotal evidence…I’ve not seen (or looked for) anything to prove it.

On Jun 12, 2017, at 3:14 PM, David Ross <[hidden email]> wrote:

IMNERHO any system with an SSD is 10 times (or more) reliable than one with spinning rust. Based on what I know about the mechanics of spinning rust and experience.


-----------------------------------------------
There are only three kinds of stress; your basic nuclear stress, cooking stress, and A$$hole stress. The key to their relationship is Jello.

neil






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Re: High Sierra and my mini.

Al Varnell
In reply to this post by David Ross
On Jun 12, 2017, at 2:14 PM, David Ross wrote:
> While not all will agree with me...
>
> IMNERHO any system with an SSD is 10 times (or more) reliable than one with spinning rust. Based on what I know about the mechanics of spinning rust and experience.
>
> David

I will agree that SSD reliability over spinners is better than initially predicted and even seems to have improved as manufacturing practices matures, but it's still too soon to put a number on it. My readings and direct observation of other users experiences is that 10 is high today.

Sent from Janet's iPad

-Al-
--
Al Varnell
Mountain View, CA


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Re: High Sierra and my mini.

Randy B. Singer
In reply to this post by David Ross

On Jun 12, 2017, at 2:14 PM, David Ross wrote:

> IMNERHO any system with an SSD is 10 times (or more) reliable than one with spinning rust. Based on what I know about the mechanics of spinning rust and experience.

I wrote an article about this for TidBits, but never submitted it as they had someone else lined up to handle the topic.  While your average SSD will have a theoretical life span of well over 20 years of heavy use, it hasn't worked out that way in the real world.

In the real world, SSD's only live about as long as RDHD's (rotating disk hard drives).  They can and do just up and quit, on average, after a few years of use.

Investigation: Is Your SSD More Reliable Than A Hard Drive?
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-reliability-failure-rate,2923.html

Solid State Drives No Better Than Others, Survey Says
<http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/213442/solid_state_drives_no_better_than_others_survey_says.html>

SSD's No More Reliable Than Hard Drives
<http://www.zdnet.com/article/ssds-no-more-reliable-than-hard-drives/>

<http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-reliability-failure-rate,2923-9.html>

The worse news?  As SSD's have come down in price, so has their reliability due to the use of cheaper types of RAM.  The above articles are all a few years old.  SSD's are *less* reliable now.

And, of course, there is also the problem that, unlike RDHD's, SSD's tend to fail with no warning.  So having a backup of all of your data is even more critical.

___________________________________________
Randy B. Singer
Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)

Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
___________________________________________






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Re: High Sierra and my mini.

Ron Risley
On Jun 12, 2017, at 21:52, gastropod <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If the data is sensitive (e.g. HIPAA), you may have to
> destroy the computer because it isn't permitted to send it to service
> unless you erase it first

Yet another argument for the universal adoption of full-disk encryption.


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Re: High Sierra and my mini.

Fritz Mills
In reply to this post by Neil Laubenthal

> On Jun 12, 2017, at 4:22 PM, Neil Laubenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> In my experience as a sysadmin…drives that are running all the time tend to fail a lot less than ones that are powered up and down every day…but that’s just anecdotal evidence…I’ve not seen (or looked for) anything to prove it.
>


Many, many, many years ago my brother worked for Ball Aerospace and they had discovered, through testing, that if computers were left on 24 hours a day, they lasted longer, so the rule was that employees were not allowed to power down any computer. The reason they concluded was responsible for the increased reliability was reduced thermal stress; that is, the heating up and cooling down of the machines produced mechanical stresses that caused mechanical failures.




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