Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

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Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Brian L. Matthews
I was prompted to update iTunes this morning. Normally I hold off on
updates until I've had a chance to hear if their are problems, but I
figured "What harm can an iTunes update do?" so I updated. And the harm
is that it no longer handles apps. You need to do app updates and
purchases on your iDevices, which not only wastes bandwidth I pay for
(downloading apps 3 times instead of once), but means if I purchase an
app and want it on all my devices, I can't just click Install in iTunes,
I have to go to each device, find it in the app store, and download it
again.

I suppose Apple is catering to the vast hordes that just own an iPhone,
but this is going to be expensive and inconvenient for anyone with
multiple devices and a Mac.

Now to figure out how to reinstall an older version...

Brian


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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Richard Rettke

On 13 Sep 2017, at 11:49, Brian L. Matthews [hidden email] wrote:

I was prompted to update iTunes this morning. Normally I hold off on updates until I've had a chance to hear if their are problems, but I figured "What harm can an iTunes update do?" so I updated. And the harm is that it no longer handles apps. You need to do app updates and purchases on your iDevices, which not only wastes bandwidth I pay for (downloading apps 3 times instead of once), but means if I purchase an app and want it on all my devices, I can't just click Install in iTunes, I have to go to each device, find it in the app store, and download it again.

I suppose Apple is catering to the vast hordes that just own an iPhone, but this is going to be expensive and inconvenient for anyone with multiple devices and a Mac.

Now to figure out how to reinstall an older version...

Brian

It appears that this link includes links to assist with what you want to do.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208075

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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

adamengst
Administrator
Apple says this:

"And the new App Store makes it easy to get, update, and redownload apps—all without a Mac or PC.”

But what if you read about an iOS while on your Mac? Are you going to have to send yourself the link, or hope Handoff works, to be able to get the details over to an iOS device?

cheers... -Adam



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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Michael Gillman
Sorry but apps never belonged in ITunes. It's good to see some of the bloat disappear. The things we whine about. 

Mike



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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Mark D. McKean
In reply to this post by adamengst
On 09/13/2017 03:25 pm, Adam Engst wrote:
> "And the new App Store makes it easy to get, update, and redownload
> apps—all without a Mac or PC.”
>
> But what if you read about an iOS while on your Mac? Are you going to
> have to send yourself the link, or hope Handoff works, to be able to
> get the details over to an iOS device?
>
And what about apps that have been removed from the App Store (for any
reason)? Or what if an app update breaks the app, and you want to revert
to the previous version?[1] You can't just redownload an app, or a
version of an app, that's not there. That's one of the main reasons I
have iTunes download my iPhone apps: so that I retain a local copy in
case I can't download it again.

I'm presuming that iTunes 12.7 will be necessary to support iOS 11 (or,
probably more accurately, versions prior to 12.7 won't support iOS 11).
The question that leads to is: Once iOS 11 is out and widely adopted,
how long will the App Store still support iTunes connections from older
versions of iTunes for devices on older versions of iOS? I can easily
see Apple phasing that out.

Either way, sounds like for the immediate future, those who plan to
upgrade to iOS 11 and still want to use iTunes on their Mac to manage
apps might want to keep an older iTunes on hand with a library
consisting just of their apps (on a secondary boot drive, or under a
different user account, or any of a number of other ways of keeping two
iTunes versions at once).

[1] I've actually had that happen with a couple of important apps, and
yes, you can revert apps if the Trash hasn't been emptied since iTunes
downloaded the new version. Just move the old version out of the Trash,
have iTunes delete the new version in its library, and drag the old
version back into iTunes. If only reverting an iOS update was that simple.

Mark D. McKean
[hidden email]





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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Mark D. McKean
In reply to this post by Michael Gillman
On 09/13/2017 03:46 pm, Michael Gillman wrote:
> Sorry but apps never belonged in ITunes. It's good to see some of the
> bloat disappear. The things we whine about. 
>
Whether iTunes was the right tool for Apple to make us use for
off-device app management isn't the question. Yes, it was bloat. It was
trying to make one app do too many things. iOS device management should
never have been in iTunes in the first place--it should have been in its
own separate app.

The problem is that Apple has now taken app management (and, apparently,
ringtone management as well) out of iTunes without providing an
alternative tool for Mac and PC. Having a tool that shouldn't have been
done the way it was, but which does the job adequately, is much
preferable to having no such tool at all.

Mark D. McKean
[hidden email]





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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Mark D. McKean
In reply to this post by Mark D. McKean
On 09/13/2017 03:52 pm, Mark D. McKean wrote:
> And what about apps that have been removed from the App Store (for any
> reason)? Or what if an app update breaks the app, and you want to revert
> to the previous version?[1] You can't just redownload an app, or a
> version of an app, that's not there.

Apparently Apple has thought of this. You apparently can still add apps
to your device manually:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201593

Of course, that doesn't help with any apps or app updates you acquire
after updating iTunes, since it won't download them anymore.

Mark D. McKean
[hidden email]



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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Brian L. Matthews
In reply to this post by Michael Gillman
On 9/13/17 12:46 PM, Michael Gillman wrote:
> Sorry but apps never belonged in ITunes. It's good to see some of the
> bloat disappear.

I agree. But the solution (in my whiny opinion at least :-) ) shouldn't
be to remove the ability to centrally manage apps from the Mac, it's to
break out app management (and maybe all iDevice management) into a
separate app, like they did with iBooks (although hopefully *much*
better than iBooks).

Brian


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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Jerome King-2
The one nice thing was the ability to move apps between screens easier than finger sliding across screens


> On Sep 13, 2017, at 4:14 PM, Brian L. Matthews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 9/13/17 12:46 PM, Michael Gillman wrote:
>> Sorry but apps never belonged in ITunes. It's good to see some of the bloat disappear.
>
> I agree. But the solution (in my whiny opinion at least :-) ) shouldn't be to remove the ability to centrally manage apps from the Mac, it's to break out app management (and maybe all iDevice management) into a separate app, like they did with iBooks (although hopefully *much* better than iBooks).
>
> Brian
>
>
> ____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Nathan Raymond
In reply to this post by Brian L. Matthews
On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 4:14 PM, Brian L. Matthews <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 9/13/17 12:46 PM, Michael Gillman wrote:
Sorry but apps never belonged in ITunes. It's good to see some of the bloat disappear.

I agree. But the solution (in my whiny opinion at least :-) ) shouldn't be to remove the ability to centrally manage apps from the Mac, it's to break out app management (and maybe all iDevice management) into a separate app, like they did with iBooks (although hopefully *much* better than iBooks).

While not exactly an end-user solution, it looks like I'll have to start using Apple Configurator 2 at home to manage my personal devices:


- Nate



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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Betty Fellows
In reply to this post by Brian L. Matthews
I agree with you, Brian. I usually add and update my iphone and ipads from my mac so removing that feature without giving me a new way of doing it is not good. I would love a separate app management tool.



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From: Brian L. Matthews <[hidden email]>
To: TidBITS Talk <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

On 9/13/17 12:46 PM, Michael Gillman wrote:
> Sorry but apps never belonged in ITunes. It's good to see some of the
> bloat disappear.

I agree. But the solution (in my whiny opinion at least :-) ) shouldn't
be to remove the ability to centrally manage apps from the Mac, it's to
break out app management (and maybe all iDevice management) into a
separate app, like they did with iBooks (although hopefully *much*
better than iBooks).

Brian



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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Tom Robinson
In reply to this post by Brian L. Matthews
If bandwidth is a concern you should check out macOS Server:  it can cache all sorts of downloads, including iOS, iCloud, and macOS, and distribute them to devices on your local network.

For installing the same app on multiple devices, just turn on Settings > iTunes & App Stores > Automatic Downloads — apps installed on 1 device will be automatically installed on others.

Cheers


> On 2017-09-14, at 04:49, Brian L. Matthews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> You need to do app updates and purchases on your iDevices, which not only wastes bandwidth I pay for (downloading apps 3 times instead of once), but means if I purchase an app and want it on all my devices, I can't just click Install in iTunes, I have to go to each device, find it in the app store, and download it again.




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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Charles Hawkins
All,

I started using iMazing a few weeks ago.  It can do many of the things that iTunes did and do them better.  I’m not totally up to speed on it yet, so I have no idea whether it deals with all these concerns or not.  Worth checking out.  Of course, you have to pay for it!

Chuck

On Sep 13, 2017, at 5:11 PM, Tom Robinson <[hidden email]> wrote:

If bandwidth is a concern you should check out macOS Server:  it can cache all sorts of downloads, including iOS, iCloud, and macOS, and distribute them to devices on your local network.

For installing the same app on multiple devices, just turn on Settings > iTunes & App Stores > Automatic Downloads — apps installed on 1 device will be automatically installed on others.

Cheers


On 2017-09-14, at 04:49, Brian L. Matthews <[hidden email]> wrote:

You need to do app updates and purchases on your iDevices, which not only wastes bandwidth I pay for (downloading apps 3 times instead of once), but means if I purchase an app and want it on all my devices, I can't just click Install in iTunes, I have to go to each device, find it in the app store, and download it again.




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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Lynne Adema-2
In reply to this post by Michael Gillman

I don't think you can create your own ringtones either.


On 9/13/2017 2:46 PM, Michael Gillman wrote:
Sorry but apps never belonged in ITunes. It's good to see some of the bloat disappear. The things we whine about. 

Mike



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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Curtis Wilcox
In reply to this post by Tom Robinson
On Sep 13, 2017, at 5:11 PM, Tom Robinson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If bandwidth is a concern you should check out macOS Server:  it can cache all sorts of downloads, including iOS, iCloud, and macOS, and distribute them to devices on your local network.


High Sierra is adding a Content Caching option to the sharing panel, will it include iOS stuff so you don't have to buy macOS Server?

> For installing the same app on multiple devices, just turn on Settings > iTunes & App Stores > Automatic Downloads — apps installed on 1 device will be automatically installed on others.

That keeps the devices in sync but doesn't save bandwidth.




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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Mark D. McKean
In reply to this post by Tom Robinson
On 09/13/2017 05:11 pm, Tom Robinson wrote:
> For installing the same app on multiple devices, just turn on Settings > iTunes & App Stores > Automatic Downloads — apps installed on 1 device will be automatically installed on others.

That assumes that you *want* the same apps installed on all your
devices. That's an awfully big assumption, even if you remove multiple
users and Family Sharing from the equation. It's not hard to imagine a
single person having both an iPhone and an iPad, and keeping a
completely different collection of apps on each.

Mark D. McKean
[hidden email]





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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Mike Noonan-2
In reply to this post by Brian L. Matthews
If one used the ”Backup iPhone apps to Mac” option (vs iCloud), has that “library” been deleted or not?   Where is the Folder?   If still present, it might be a useful cache for reloading old apps (but only one version deep).   I’d probably move it to my User space for safer keeping.  


On Sep 13, 2017, at 5:52 PM, gastropod <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Wed, Sep 13, 2017, at 09:49 AM, Brian L. Matthews wrote:

> Now to figure out how to reinstall an older version...

Rob Griffiths posted a link to get 12.6.2 on his blog (in the comments):

https://robservatory.com/on-the-removal-of-ios-apps-from-itunes-i-hate-it/

https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1934?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Richard Rettke
In reply to this post by Charles Hawkins

On 13 Sep 2017, at 16:47, Charles Hawkins [hidden email] wrote:

All,

I started using iMazing a few weeks ago.  It can do many of the things that iTunes did and do them better.  I’m not totally up to speed on it yet, so I have no idea whether it deals with all these concerns or not.  Worth checking out.  Of course, you have to pay for it!

Chuck

I have been using iMazing for several years. Love it. My use is pretty generic so I'm not sure if it can deal with all the things the new iTunes doesn't, but it's a pretty amazing App.

--
Richard Rettke
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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Tom Robinson
In reply to this post by Mark D. McKean
Sure but I was replying to, and quoted, Brian L. Matthews who didn’t want to install new apps manually on each of his 3 devices.


> On 2017-09-14, at 13:00, Mark D. McKean <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> For installing the same app on multiple devices, just turn on Settings > iTunes & App Stores > Automatic Downloads — apps installed on 1 device will be automatically installed on others.
>
> That assumes that you *want* the same apps installed on all your
> devices. That's an awfully big assumption, even if you remove multiple
> users and Family Sharing from the equation. It's not hard to imagine a
> single person having both an iPhone and an iPad, and keeping a
> completely different collection of apps on each.




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Re: Beware iTunes 12.7 - it no longer handles apps

Brian L. Matthews
In reply to this post by Mark D. McKean
On 9/13/17 6:00 PM, Mark D. McKean wrote:
> On 09/13/2017 05:11 pm, Tom Robinson wrote:
>> For installing the same app on multiple devices, just turn on Settings > iTunes & App Stores > Automatic Downloads — apps installed on 1 device will be automatically installed on others.
> That assumes that you *want* the same apps installed on all your
> devices. That's an awfully big assumption, even if you remove multiple
> users and Family Sharing from the equation. It's not hard to imagine a
> single person having both an iPhone and an iPad, and keeping a
> completely different collection of apps on each.

Yep, that's my case. In fact, because one of my iPads has twice the
space as my iPhone (and I'm using over half the space on the iPad) which
has twice the space of my other iPad, I couldn't keep them synced if I
wanted to (which I wouldn't want to do even if they all had the space).

Brian


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