Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

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Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

Brian White
Airport Time Capsule (couple years old? 2TB) with Time Warner > Spectrum cable service. Main cable goes into a splitter that then connects to the cable modem and Time Capsule, and the cable modem and Time Capsule are connected via Ethernet cable. All devices (TV’s too) connect to the Internet wirelessly. Mac Pro, iPad, 4 iPhones, 2 Macbooks and a PlayStation 4. Everything worked fine, no previous “can’t connect" issues, including after moving to a new house and also setting up a new cable modem once or twice before.

Spectrum came the other day to replace our cable (signal was detected as weakening), and when the guy was done we checked everything and it was fine. But right before he left he also replaced the cable modem. All the proper lights blinked on the modem and the Time Capsule and he said everything should be fine and he quickly left (first Spectrum support rep I talked to said “uh oh” when I told her that). The new cable modem is a Cisco Technicolor Model dpc3216.

After he left I noticed my Mac Pro didn’t have a wireless signal, but I did on my iPhone (lights on cable modem still correct). However another iPhone also didn’t have a wireless signal, but the iPad and the Playstation did (and both worked). So I went through the process of unplugging the cable modem and Time Capsule and then plugging them back in so they could reset, restarted my computer and its wireless worked. But now, the devices that previously had worked, including the iPad and PlayStation, did NOT work. When my wife came home later and tried to connect her iPhone and MacBook, they couldn’t connect to the apparently “new” wireless network either. The PlayStation and iPad, which both worked initially, have not worked again through all the various reboot/restart attempts (much to the chagrin of my teenage son!).

I went through the restart/reboot process with the modem and Time Capsule a few more times, and most of the time a few devices would again switch (if they were working, now they weren’t, or visa versa) but no matter what I can’t get all devices connected and working at the same time. I’ve also tried the “Renew DHCP Lease” or “Renew Lease" button.

Currently, wireless on my Mac Pro is working, but in AirPort Utility it shows Time Capsule as not connected (“this Time Capsule used to belong to the network…”). Wait, I just checked again, and now the Time Capsule IS showing in Airport Utility (I had done nothing else in the meantime). Sometimes after a modem or router reboot the computers show this in their network settings: "Wi-Fi has the self-assigned IP address 169.254.xxx.xxx and will not be able to connect to the Internet.”

When a device is not connecting, if I go into its network settings, I see that the DNS and router info is missing, and the IP address is completely different from the IP addresses on devices that are working. Subnet mask is 255.255.0.0 on non-working devices, and on working devices it’s 255.255.xxx.0, where xxx is 3 other numbers.

Airport settings in the Time Capsule (have not changed as far as I know): connect using DHCP, WPA2 Personal, 2.4GHz Channel and 5GHz Channel both set to Automatic. Router Mode is “Off (Bridge Mode)”.

I’ve tried various combinations of restarting or rebooting the modem and router, either individually or both, restarting the various devices, searched Google and Apple support, and although I’ve come across a few situations describing something very similar, no solutions that worked. I spent an hour on the phone with Spectrum “advanced” support and they gave up, saying that since the wireless is working for some devices, it must be the Time Capsule’s problem (but again, nothing went wrong until the new cable modem was connected to the Time Capsule).

I know networking issues can be especially difficult to resolve, but after 2 full days of trying to figure this out, any help or advice is much appreciated. I can provide additional details and/or screenshots for anyone willing to help tackle this.

Thanks!
Brian White





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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

Ray Kloss
Very likely he turned on the WiFi on the router. Not sure why that may interfere or stop the router, but you should be able to look at the cable router settings through your web browser. Usually on the router is an IP address as well as the default password to log in. Turn off he WiFi, make sure it is not acting as a router and then make sure it is connected to your Airport correctly.




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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

Brian White

> On Nov 10, 2017, at 10:30 PM, Ray Kloss <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Very likely he turned on the WiFi on the router. Not sure why that may interfere or stop the router, but you should be able to look at the cable router settings through your web browser. Usually on the router is an IP address as well as the default password to log in. Turn off he WiFi, make sure it is not acting as a router and then make sure it is connected to your Airport correctly.

Thanks Ray, but I’m not sure what you mean. The Airport Time Capsule *is* the router.

Brian White


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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

Richard Rettke

On 10 Nov 2017, at 21:35, Brian White [hidden email] wrote:

Thanks Ray, but I’m not sure what you mean. The Airport Time Capsule *is* the router.

The Time Capsule is supposed to be the router (although I'm confused as to why it would be in bridge mode), but if the WI-FI is turned on in the Cisco you then have potential for all sorts of issues including 'Double NAT'. NAT (Network Address Translation) should only be turned on for the primary router.

In my configuration I have an ARRIS cable modem connected to Spectrum & WI-FI is OFF on this device. Via ethernet it connects to my TP-Link Router which handles NAT. I have a second TP-Link connected to the first via Ethernet and it is in Bridge Mode with NAT turned off. I am not a network expert but Double NAT was a real issue (even in my prior config with a different cable modem and an Airport Extreme until I figured out how to turn off NAT in the Cable Modem).

My experience with Cable companies installing their own modems is they just assume you are going to use their modem for WI-Fi and thats the way it gets installed. Which is one of several reasons I opted to purchase my own Cable modem and bypass their tech people completely.
--
Richard Rettke
Laus Deo
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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

Brian White

> On Nov 10, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Richard Rettke <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 10 Nov 2017, at 21:35, Brian White [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Ray, but I’m not sure what you mean. The Airport Time Capsule *is* the router.
>
> The Time Capsule is supposed to be the router (although I'm confused as to why it would be in bridge mode), but if the WI-FI is turned on in the Cisco you then have potential for all sorts of issues including 'Double NAT'. NAT (Network Address Translation) should only be turned on for the primary router.
>
> In my configuration I have an ARRIS cable modem connected to Spectrum & WI-FI is OFF on this device. Via ethernet it connects to my TP-Link Router which handles NAT. I have a second TP-Link connected to the first via Ethernet and it is in Bridge Mode with NAT turned off. I am not a network expert but Double NAT was a real issue (even in my prior config with a different cable modem and an Airport Extreme until I figured out how to turn off NAT in the Cable Modem).
>
> My experience with Cable companies installing their own modems is they just assume you are going to use their modem for WI-Fi and thats the way it gets installed. Which is one of several reasons I opted to purchase my own Cable modem and bypass their tech people completely.
>
> Richard Rettke

I can’t explain why it was in bridge mode either, but that’s what it was and it worked with the previous modem.

I don’t know how to tell if wi-fi is turned on in the new Cisco modem, or how to turn it off if so.

Thanks.
Brian White


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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

Richard Rettke

On 10 Nov 2017, at 22:02, Brian White [hidden email] wrote:

I can’t explain why it was in bridge mode either, but that’s what it was and it worked with the previous modem.

What I would do is
1) Search the web and find the manual(s) for that Cisco, so you have them for reference.
2) Call Spectrum and they should be able to tell you how it is configured.

Good Luck, wish I knew more about networking.

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Richard Rettke
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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

Ray Kloss

What I would do is
1) Search the web and find the manual(s) for that Cisco, so you have them for reference.
2) Call Spectrum and they should be able to tell you how it is configured.

If your browser connects to the modern, type the IP address if there is one (and a password) printed on the modem. Try that before calling.



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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

Alan Forkosh
In reply to this post by Brian White
Here’s what a search turned up for the manual:


It looks like it is not a router but can handle VOIP.

Alan Forkosh                    Oakland, CA
[hidden email]
http://al4kosh.com








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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

Brian White
In reply to this post by Ray Kloss

> On Nov 10, 2017, at 11:21 PM, Ray Kloss <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> What I would do is
>> 1) Search the web and find the manual(s) for that Cisco, so you have them for reference.
>> 2) Call Spectrum and they should be able to tell you how it is configured.

Thanks, I’d done both of those things already.

> If your browser connects to the modern, type the IP address if there is one (and a password) printed on the modem. Try that before calling.

Somewhere online I found an IP address I could connect to (after Spectrum support told me this wasn’t possible), it’s an “About” page giving some info about the modem’s status and state and channels, etc…, and there’s a login for User Name and Password but I don’t have that info.

I could try calling Spectrum again, but am unsure as to exactly what I could tell them or should ask them to hopefully get to the real issue and avoid simply being told again that it’s the Time Capsule’s problem.

I don’t know enough about networking to troubleshoot this any further on my own without specific instructions, but it seems to me from what I can understand that for some reason the Time Capsule and new cable modem don’t play well together, and although it works at least partly, since some devices are able to get an IP address and proper DNS info from the Time Capsule (router), not all devices at the same time are able to get the necessary info as before. It’s a mystery to me why after rebooting the router and/or modem, some devices may start working while others that were working now don’t. Almost like there’s a limit as to how many devices the router can give the info to, and it’s random as to which ones get it and which ones don’t.

Thanks again, still looking for that silver bullet that’ll fix everything :-)

Brian White


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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

James R Cutler
In reply to this post by Brian White
Brian,

If your Airport Time Capsule was in bridge mode, that indicates that the routing and DHCP functions were done by the supplied device. The TC acted only as an Ethernet switch and WiFi access point.

WiFi from the supplied device is a is a separate problem. You can disable it or configure it to different channels than are used by the TC. 

Jim 

On Nov 10, 2017, at 11:02 PM, Brian White <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Nov 10, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Richard Rettke <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 10 Nov 2017, at 21:35, Brian White [hidden email] wrote:

Thanks Ray, but I’m not sure what you mean. The Airport Time Capsule *is* the router.

The Time Capsule is supposed to be the router (although I'm confused as to why it would be in bridge mode), but if the WI-FI is turned on in the Cisco you then have potential for all sorts of issues including 'Double NAT'. NAT (Network Address Translation) should only be turned on for the primary router.

In my configuration I have an ARRIS cable modem connected to Spectrum & WI-FI is OFF on this device. Via ethernet it connects to my TP-Link Router which handles NAT. I have a second TP-Link connected to the first via Ethernet and it is in Bridge Mode with NAT turned off. I am not a network expert but Double NAT was a real issue (even in my prior config with a different cable modem and an Airport Extreme until I figured out how to turn off NAT in the Cable Modem).

My experience with Cable companies installing their own modems is they just assume you are going to use their modem for WI-Fi and thats the way it gets installed. Which is one of several reasons I opted to purchase my own Cable modem and bypass their tech people completely.

Richard Rettke

I can’t explain why it was in bridge mode either, but that’s what it was and it worked with the previous modem.

I don’t know how to tell if wi-fi is turned on in the new Cisco modem, or how to turn it off if so.

Thanks.
Brian White


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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

Ray Kloss
In reply to this post by Brian White
> On Nov 10, 2017, at 10:44 PM, Brian White <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> and there’s a login for User Name and Password but I don’t have that info.

There may be some numbers on the modem that may not look like it but may be the user name and password. I’ve seen that on a few modems, but not sure about yours. You can also google the model number for default User name and Passwords


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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

James R Cutler
In reply to this post by Alan Forkosh
Given this new data:

The DPC3216 are cable modem and voice adapter only boxes. There is no router or NAT function, just WAN connection from the Coax to the Ethernet connector.

The Ethernet connection will serve one device. In your case, connect it to the WAN port on your Time Capsule. Then, on the Time Capsule, set 

Time Capsule > Network > Router Mode:  DHCP and NAT
 
The TC will pick up an address for the WAN connection and route/NAT that connection to the local network ( 3 Ethernet ports and WiFi ).



On Nov 10, 2017, at 11:23 PM, Alan Forkosh <[hidden email]> wrote:

Here’s what a search turned up for the manual:


It looks like it is not a router but can handle VOIP.

Alan Forkosh                    Oakland, CA
[hidden email]





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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

Brian White

On Nov 11, 2017, at 12:02 AM, James R Cutler <[hidden email]> wrote:

Given this new data:

The DPC3216 are cable modem and voice adapter only boxes. There is no router or NAT function, just WAN connection from the Coax to the Ethernet connector.

The Ethernet connection will serve one device. In your case, connect it to the WAN port on your Time Capsule. Then, on the Time Capsule, set 

Time Capsule > Network > Router Mode:  DHCP and NAT
 
The TC will pick up an address for the WAN connection and route/NAT that connection to the local network ( 3 Ethernet ports and WiFi ).

Jim, thanks, really appreciate this, hope it works. Believe it or not I think I was stumbling my way to this answer. Some of this has sunk in the past 2 days, and then tonight I found this forum page:


that when I read through a lot of it I was trying to put the pieces of info together to match my situation.

Anyway, I can change the router mode to DHCP and NAT as you suggest, but given the current situation of some devices working and some not, before I make that change should I do anything else? Turn off all devices? Disconnect them from the network? Reboot modem and/or Time Capsule first? Or don’t I need to do anything first, but will need to reboot something after I make that change to the router mode?

Sorry for the additional questions, but if possible I don’t want to have this fail because of something simple that I didn’t know about.

Thanks!
Brian White

-------------------------


On Nov 10, 2017, at 11:23 PM, Alan Forkosh <[hidden email]> wrote:






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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

Rodney
In reply to this post by Ray Kloss

> On Nov 11, 2017, at 05:55, Ray Kloss <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> You can also google the model number for default User name and Passwords

And then change it…🙁



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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

David Tuma
When I first used Comcast, I had to have them remotely make a change to the modem/router so my Time Capsule would provide WiFi - and throughout the house with Airport Express extenders.  TC was connected by ethernet cable to the router - as it is for all cases below.

When I got Verizon, I had two Verizon WiFi signals and my Time Capsule WiFi - all three worked fine and I had an extender for the Verizon.  I got faster and better signals from Verizon and used my TC as a back-up.

I switched back to Comcast.  I now have three Wifi signals - 2.5 and 5.0 and my Time Capsule (circa 2014).  All three work well though I use the TC signal in most of the house as it is the only extended signal.  I found that my MBP and iPhone would shift WiFi signals - I figured it was due to signal strength.  But it isn’t causing problems now.  There were several resources to fix the problem with the MBP dropping off and coming back on WiFi  - I just googled “Mac Disconnecting from WiFi.”  I don’t have problems now.  Comcast may have made some remote settings in the modem/router but I don’t think they did this time.

Seems like this is no different from operating in an environment of several WiFi networks when run by different organizations.

Am I doing something stupid?

David Tuma


On Nov 11, 2017, at 3:29 AM, Rodney <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Nov 11, 2017, at 05:55, Ray Kloss <[hidden email]> wrote:

You can also google the model number for default User name and Passwords

And then change it…🙁



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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

Al Varnell
On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 02:16 AM, David Tuma wrote:
When I first used Comcast, I had to have them remotely make a change to the modem/router so my Time Capsule would provide WiFi - and throughout the house with Airport Express extenders.  TC was connected by ethernet cable to the router - as it is for all cases below.

When I got Verizon, I had two Verizon WiFi signals and my Time Capsule WiFi - all three worked fine and I had an extender for the Verizon.  I got faster and better signals from Verizon and used my TC as a back-up.

I switched back to Comcast.  I now have three Wifi signals - 2.5 and 5.0 and my Time Capsule (circa 2014).  All three work well though I use the TC signal in most of the house as it is the only extended signal.  I found that my MBP and iPhone would shift WiFi signals - I figured it was due to signal strength.  But it isn’t causing problems now.  There were several resources to fix the problem with the MBP dropping off and coming back on WiFi  - I just googled “Mac Disconnecting from WiFi.”  I don’t have problems now.  Comcast may have made some remote settings in the modem/router but I don’t think they did this time.

Seems like this is no different from operating in an environment of several WiFi networks when run by different organizations.

Am I doing something stupid?

David Tuma

Since most WiFi channels overlap, there's a very good chance that the two networks are interfering with each other. Also, there are some features that require all computers and iDevices to be logged into the same network in order for them to function. And as you found out, moving around the house will cause your MBP and iPhone to switch networks after some delay. I doubt that there is any real advantage to having two different networks. Having both 2.4 and 5.0 GHz is likely OK as they won't interfere with each other.

-Al-
-- 
Al Varnell
Mountain View, CA







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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

David Tuma
Al,
Thank you.
If I delete the TC Wifi, how do I set it up to allow me to B/U to it wirelessly and allow it to extend the other networks since I only have Airport express extenders?
David


On Nov 11, 2017, at 5:41 AM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 02:16 AM, David Tuma wrote:
When I first used Comcast, I had to have them remotely make a change to the modem/router so my Time Capsule would provide WiFi - and throughout the house with Airport Express extenders.  TC was connected by ethernet cable to the router - as it is for all cases below.

When I got Verizon, I had two Verizon WiFi signals and my Time Capsule WiFi - all three worked fine and I had an extender for the Verizon.  I got faster and better signals from Verizon and used my TC as a back-up.

I switched back to Comcast.  I now have three Wifi signals - 2.5 and 5.0 and my Time Capsule (circa 2014).  All three work well though I use the TC signal in most of the house as it is the only extended signal.  I found that my MBP and iPhone would shift WiFi signals - I figured it was due to signal strength.  But it isn’t causing problems now.  There were several resources to fix the problem with the MBP dropping off and coming back on WiFi  - I just googled “Mac Disconnecting from WiFi.”  I don’t have problems now.  Comcast may have made some remote settings in the modem/router but I don’t think they did this time.

Seems like this is no different from operating in an environment of several WiFi networks when run by different organizations.

Am I doing something stupid?

David Tuma

Since most WiFi channels overlap, there's a very good chance that the two networks are interfering with each other. Also, there are some features that require all computers and iDevices to be logged into the same network in order for them to function. And as you found out, moving around the house will cause your MBP and iPhone to switch networks after some delay. I doubt that there is any real advantage to having two different networks. Having both 2.4 and 5.0 GHz is likely OK as they won't interfere with each other.

-Al-
-- 
Al Varnell
Mountain View, CA






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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

Al Varnell
On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 02:47 AM, David Tuma wrote:
Al,
Thank you.
If I delete the TC Wifi, how do I set it up to allow me to B/U to it wirelessly and allow it to extend the other networks since I only have Airport express extenders?
David

Neither can be done. TC backup would have to be wired. Also, those Airport Expresses will slow your network, so unless you absolutely need them (e.g. for audio feed or dead spots) you'll probably get better performance without them.

That's why your seeing everybody recommend disabling the Comcast WiFi.

-Al-

On Nov 11, 2017, at 5:41 AM, Al Varnell wrote:
On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 02:16 AM, David Tuma wrote:
When I first used Comcast, I had to have them remotely make a change to the modem/router so my Time Capsule would provide WiFi - and throughout the house with Airport Express extenders.  TC was connected by ethernet cable to the router - as it is for all cases below.

When I got Verizon, I had two Verizon WiFi signals and my Time Capsule WiFi - all three worked fine and I had an extender for the Verizon.  I got faster and better signals from Verizon and used my TC as a back-up.

I switched back to Comcast.  I now have three Wifi signals - 2.5 and 5.0 and my Time Capsule (circa 2014).  All three work well though I use the TC signal in most of the house as it is the only extended signal.  I found that my MBP and iPhone would shift WiFi signals - I figured it was due to signal strength.  But it isn’t causing problems now.  There were several resources to fix the problem with the MBP dropping off and coming back on WiFi  - I just googled “Mac Disconnecting from WiFi.”  I don’t have problems now.  Comcast may have made some remote settings in the modem/router but I don’t think they did this time.

Seems like this is no different from operating in an environment of several WiFi networks when run by different organizations.

Am I doing something stupid?

David Tuma

Since most WiFi channels overlap, there's a very good chance that the two networks are interfering with each other. Also, there are some features that require all computers and iDevices to be logged into the same network in order for them to function. And as you found out, moving around the house will cause your MBP and iPhone to switch networks after some delay. I doubt that there is any real advantage to having two different networks. Having both 2.4 and 5.0 GHz is likely OK as they won't interfere with each other.

-Al-

-Al-
-- 
Al Varnell
Mountain View, CA








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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

Rodney

On Nov 11, 2017, at 12:13, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thank you.
If I delete the TC Wifi, how do I set it up to allow me to B/U to it wirelessly and allow it to extend the other networks since I only have Airport express extenders?
David

Neither can be done. TC backup would have to be wired. 

I’m not so sure about that. If the TC is connected, via Ethernet, to a network that also has a wireless access point, then why couldn’t a device that connects wirelessly to the network still back up to the TC? This is probably not the best for performance, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t work.



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Re: Airport router problem - some devices won't connect after getting new cable modem

Al Varnell
On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 03:32 AM, Rodney wrote:
On Nov 11, 2017, at 12:13, Al Varnell wrote:
Thank you.
If I delete the TC Wifi, how do I set it up to allow me to B/U to it wirelessly and allow it to extend the other networks since I only have Airport express extenders?
David

Neither can be done. TC backup would have to be wired. 

I’m not so sure about that. If the TC is connected, via Ethernet, to a network that also has a wireless access point, then why couldn’t a device that connects wirelessly to the network still back up to the TC? This is probably not the best for performance, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t work.

Although I don't have a TC to experiment with, several users I work with tried that method and were unable to get it to work.

-Al-







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